Is Luke Cage proof that a Spider-Man with a child can work?

[Darthfury78]

Well, Reed Richards has kid with Sue since like the sixties, and a second one since more than a decade; so i think that it's more a matter of that some (especially higher-ups) at Marvel only want him as a single man.

Personally, I would rather see Peter develop his friendship with his close heroine friends first. After that, bring back the marriage. But the last 8 years has been a huge wasted opportunity on pairing Peter up with newly created characters that no one really cares about. The closet we've gotten was Betty Brant, Carol Danvers, Jessica Drew, and Silver Sable respectively.

[Yvonmukluk]

A big part of Peter's appeal is that he's a self-absorbed little smartmouthed neurotic who's trying to do the best he can.

Add a kid in, he's just going to treat the kid like a burden the way he does his aunt, his parents, his friends, his wife and all his beautiful and amazing girlfriends.

Even adult Spidey is pretty immature. Luke Cage, on the other hand, found a way to make money without demonizing himself and promoting false information in a major newspaper for a living. (Seriously, I love Parker, but he's doing this to himself.)

Plus, he'd probably hit his pregnant wife again, and we don't need that any more.

Hey, he was pretty damn mature back in the JMS run...before Quesada reverted him to the immature jackass you're talking about (and that I'm not sure actually existed outside of Quesada's own mind, even back in the 'golden age'.

But seriously, JMS Spider-Man seemed like the kind of guy who could actually handle being a father.

Hell, if you can track down DeFalco's 'Mr. & Mrs. Spider-Man' stories you can get a direct example of Peter as husband, father, & hero who's still recognizably Spider-Man.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Why should Luke be proof of that?
Peter went on some adventures as Spider-Man in the MC2, that did not make him less of a father, or a lesser responsible person. That is better proof than Luke Cage can be.

[t hedge coke]

Hey, he was pretty damn mature back in the JMS run

I've seen a certain lightning lecture as foreplay that demonstrates otherwise.

But, also, I think it's key to his broad appeal that he's soap-opera-ish neurotic and self-centered that way. Fighting against his worries and making up for his blindspots makes him more appealing to more people than if he got it all right.

Hell, if you can track down DeFalco's 'Mr. & Mrs. Spider-Man' stories you can get a direct example of Peter as husband, father, & hero who's still recognizably Spider-Man.

DeFalco does some good work with a Spider-Daddy, but I think, too, if you made that the default version, you'd lose a lot of people. If you released a Spider-Girl movie, but focusing on Peter instead of his daughter, it'd be a bust. It's not where his appeal is.

And, I say that as someone who thinks that Garth Ennis' take, removing all that geek-ego and neuroses, and having him act like an adult was a fantastic take. As someone who likes Spider-Girl. Who likes Pete and MJ.

[Agent Z]

I've seen a certain lightning lecture as foreplay that demonstrates otherwise.

But, also, I think it's key to his broad appeal that he's soap-opera-ish neurotic and self-centered that way. Fighting against his worries and making up for his blindspots makes him more appealing to more people than if he got it all right.



DeFalco does some good work with a Spider-Daddy, but I think, too, if you made that the default version, you'd lose a lot of people. If you released a Spider-Girl movie, but focusing on Peter instead of his daughter, it'd be a bust. It's not where his appeal is.

And, I say that as someone who thinks that Garth Ennis' take, removing all that geek-ego and neuroses, and having him act like an adult was a fantastic take. As someone who likes Spider-Girl. Who likes Pete and MJ.

The X-Men are different from how they first appeared. As is Dick Grayson, Clark Kent, Sam Wilson, Luke Cage and a dozen other characters I don't have the time to name. Peter may have started out as a neurotic screw up but that's not the only way to write him. By this logic no character should change. If making him act more mature allegedly ruins him then IMO he wasn't that good a character anyway.

As for hitting his wife, I'm gonna do the same thing I've always done for Hank Pym -- blame the writer and editor.

[numberthirty]

Spider-Man with a kid? Earth X is the best argument against that.

[t hedge coke]

Spider-Man with a kid? Earth X is the best argument against that.

If we believed the Earth X versions, it'd be the best argument against everyone, ever, for doing anything.

Except Cap becoming an angel. I guess.

(Visions of May Parker traveling back in time and seeing her dad, young. "Dad! Diet!")

[Yvonmukluk]

I've seen a certain lightning lecture as foreplay that demonstrates otherwise.

But, also, I think it's key to his broad appeal that he's soap-opera-ish neurotic and self-centered that way. Fighting against his worries and making up for his blindspots makes him more appealing to more people than if he got it all right.

I think discounting Peter as a mature adult just because of a slightly childish moment is a bit much. After all, as a wise man once said, 'what's the point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?'

And he can be a put upon everyman while still having a family. Just because he's a father doesn't make him perfect. not to mention JMS' run was very popular even though he acted like a mture adult who struggled with everyday problems but approached them with good humour. He was never 'soap-opera-ish neurotic' then. I don't really think he was back in the 'golden age'.

DeFalco does some good work with a Spider-Daddy, but I think, too, if you made that the default version, you'd lose a lot of people. If you released a Spider-Girl movie, but focusing on Peter instead of his daughter, it'd be a bust. It's not where his appeal is.

And, I say that as someone who thinks that Garth Ennis' take, removing all that geek-ego and neuroses, and having him act like an adult was a fantastic take. As someone who likes Spider-Girl. Who likes Pete and MJ.

I was talking about those stories DeFalco did for Spider-Man family that focused on Peter being Spider-Man as well as a parent. Which worked really well.

[jimishim12]

Peter and Mature has always been presented as vague perspectives depending on the reader, Peter struck me as mature on some things, but childish and illogical in others. And IMO him being a dad in the Spider-Man stories was always a what if scenario from the regular depiction. I still don't see JMS spidey being the example of someone who would be a well adjusted father, because he was still a bit of a loser and a whiner.

[Cmbmool]

NO one is going to mention Spider-girl and the MC-2 Universe that proves that Spider-man can have a wife and child ?

[Vegeta]

NO one is going to mention Spider-girl and the MC-2 Universe that proves that Spider-man can have a wife and child ?

Nope. Because he was more or less retired from spider-manning at that point (and was missing a leg to boot). The fact that he immediately got himself killed when Morlun's brother showed up pretty much closes the door on the subject.

But as to the OP I would say Luke Cage is more proof that a Power Man with a child can work.

[Lee]

"Mature adult" is a dull character archetype. Marvel didn't become successful by having characters best described as "mature adults".

[Bor]

I think that a Spider-man with a child can work, but no I dont think Luke Cage is proof of that. What works for one character might not work for another. Its like saying that "is Luke Cage proof that a Spider-man with a superhero as a girlfriend, a best friend who is a millionaire and a criminal past proof that can work?".

Actually now I kinda want to see that.

[Aruran.]

I think that a Spider-man with a child can work, but no I dont think Luke Cage is proof of that. What works for one character might not work for another. Its like saying that "is Luke Cage proof that a Spider-man with a superhero as a girlfriend, a best friend who is a millionaire and a criminal past proof that can work?".

Actually now I kinda want to see that.

This.

Thinking what works well for one character can have the same or better impact on a different character leads to bad ideas.

[Huntsman Spider]

The X-Men are different from how they first appeared. As is Dick Grayson, Clark Kent, Sam Wilson, Luke Cage and a dozen other characters I don't have the time to name. Peter may have started out as a neurotic screw up but that's not the only way to write him. By this logic no character should change. If making him act more mature allegedly ruins him then IMO he wasn't that good a character anyway.

As for hitting his wife, I'm gonna do the same thing I've always done for Hank Pym -- blame the writer and editor.

And in both cases, it only happened once, while both of them were on the verge of an emotional and psychological breakdown and the strike was an accident born of being too caught up in their impending insanity to realize what they were doing. It's just that since Spider-Man is a far more popular character than Hank Pym with decades of great solo storytelling to his name while Pym has largely languished in the background of various Avengers titles, it's much easier for Marvel (and fans) to ignore or gloss over that one horrible incident. Pym, on the other hand, keeps getting s*** for it by more recent writers because as far as they're concerned, it's the only significant character moment he has that isn't creating Ultron.

"Mature adult" is a dull character archetype. Marvel didn't become successful by having characters best described as "mature adults".

Especially since quite frankly, if anybody in the Marvel Universe was a mature adult, you wouldn't have constant super-powered grudge matches instigated by entitled jackasses angry that they weren't allowed to do or take whatever they wanted. I leave it up to your interpretation whether I'm talking about actual super-villains or some of the so-called "heroes."