Thor's #1 thoughts *SPOILERS*

[Biclopcicle]

So...
Is Lawspeaker King Thor?
Is the guy who tried to get into Manhattan mead hall 616 Odinson?! Why would he still be unworthy?

[Raye]

Sure looks like king Thor. though we saw him get killed in Secret Wars so one or the other could be an alt that's just very similar.

Unworthy Thor may also not be OUR Thor, but another alt.

Basically, I don't think we can think of ANY character on Battleworld save the liferaft survivors, Doom and Strange as exactly OUR versions of the characters. They are ALL different in some way even if they originally came from 616. And there is no guarantee that any character you see DID come from 616, merely a world that's almost but not quite the same.

ANYWAY! I liked it. A good mystery going on, but I do think Jason Aaron is pulling another red herring trick at the end there. Wasn't Loki. We never saw it happen, it cut away to just a big ass lightning bolt from the sky, not Loki's style. The victim of this one-person serial killing spree has waaaaaay more to do with Thor than Loki. I could buy Loki killing his OWN alts, or maybe Thors, but this? no. Doesn't fit. Also, the victims all had their heads smashed in, again, not Loki's style, but it would fit say, someone with a big ass hammer... I think we are definitely dealing with a rogue Thor here. And one of the ones that is actually THOR Thor, not some other character like Groot or whatever. Runey is too obvious, though. I think he's just crude and belligerent, not a killer.

[PiercedMonk]

That panel of Ultimate Thor putting on surgical gloves over top of his fingerless gloves kills me every time.

I also really liked how the Thors have their own ranking system; Stormbreaker, Thunderer, Berserker. It wasn't 'til near the end of the issue that I caught on that's what the terms were being used for.

ANYWAY! I liked it. A good mystery going on, but I do think Jason Aaron is pulling another red herring trick at the end there. Wasn't Loki. We never saw it happen, it cut away to just a big ass lightning bolt from the sky, not Loki's style. The victim of this one-person serial killing spree has waaaaaay more to do with Thor than Loki. I could buy Loki killing his OWN alts, or maybe Thors, but this? no. Doesn't fit. Also, the victims all had their heads smashed in, again, not Loki's style, but it would fit say, someone with a big ass hammer... I think we are definitely dealing with a rogue Thor here. And one of the ones that is actually THOR Thor, not some other character like Groot or whatever. Runey is too obvious, though. I think he's just crude and belligerent, not a killer.

That would seem to be the most likely answer. Perhaps specifically a Thor who has some memory of the world before Battleworld?

[Sardorim]

Sure looks like king Thor. though we saw him get killed in Secret Wars so one or the other could be an alt that's just very similar.

Unworthy Thor may also not be OUR Thor, but another alt.

Basically, I don't think we can think of ANY character on Battleworld save the liferaft survivors, Doom and Strange as exactly OUR versions of the characters. They are ALL different in some way even if they originally came from 616. And there is no guarantee that any character you see DID come from 616, merely a world that's almost but not quite the same.

ANYWAY! I liked it. A good mystery going on, but I do think Jason Aaron is pulling another red herring trick at the end there. Wasn't Loki. We never saw it happen, it cut away to just a big ass lightning bolt from the sky, not Loki's style. The victim of this one-person serial killing spree has waaaaaay more to do with Thor than Loki. I could buy Loki killing his OWN alts, or maybe Thors, but this? no. Doesn't fit. Also, the victims all had their heads smashed in, again, not Loki's style, but it would fit say, someone with a big ass hammer... I think we are definitely dealing with a rogue Thor here. And one of the ones that is actually THOR Thor, not some other character like Groot or whatever. Runey is too obvious, though. I think he's just crude and belligerent, not a killer.

Why not? Doom saved them, all he did extra was overwrite memories with fake ones.

[Raye]

That panel of Ultimate Thor putting on surgical gloves over top of his fingerless gloves kills me every time.

I also really liked how the Thors have their own ranking system; Stormbreaker, Thunderer, Berserker. It wasn't 'til near the end of the issue that I caught on that's what the terms were being used for.



That would seem to be the most likely answer. Perhaps specifically a Thor who has some memory of the world before Battleworld?

Could be. I have a hard time picturing any Thor (of the Odinson variety) killing Jane, though. but it was a big multiverse, you never know. And if he does remember his past world, it could cause him to snap. In any case, it was said that the body had been dead for 'months' but the bodies had been moved to locations to be found only within the past week. So obviously there is some elaborate thing going on here, the killer had been killing and hanging on to the bodies for MONTHS, and only now are they allowing them to be found. Clearly, some message is being sent. Does the killer want to remind the Thors of who they used to be in some twisted way?

Why not? Doom saved them, all he did extra was overwrite memories with fake ones.

Even if they are *technically* the characters that Doom saved from 616, due to the dramatically altered histories/memories, we can't expect them to be just like how they were when the worlds ended. I mean, re-writing memories is pretty huge. If a character has a brand new set of memories and experiences plugged in, they essentially become a new character entirely, no matter how they started out. The person I was replying to was confused why the unworthy Thor here wasn't worthy again, because he had become worthy right before that big fight with the Beyonders. and that's why. He obviously has no memory of becoming worthy again with Doom's whole re-writing of everyone's history. He's superficially very similar to the unworthy Thor running around in Jason Aaron's Thor book, but it's just impossible for him to be the same character in a whole lot of ways. the Thors by necessity had to have their memories altered more than most. I mean, Asgard and his entire family doesn't even exist any more. (or if they do exist, like Loki here, they don't realize they are related) Apparently not a single member of the entire Thor corps had any clue who Jane Foster was. so... yeah. as far as I am concerned, they are not the same characters. (and the same goes for every other character except the liferaft survivors, Doom, and Strange... and Deadpool's ghost, cus the whole 4th wall breaking and all. possibly a couple other exceptions yet to be revealed. I suspect Loki. But not Unworthy Thor.)

[Godzilla2099]

Good Issue.

Even though none of the Thors were the real thing, I liked the story and interactions between them.

Frog Thor is my personal favorite

[Holt]

Even if they are *technically* the characters that doom saved from 616, due to the dramatically altered histories/memories, we can't expect them to be just like how they were when the worlds ended. I mean, re-writing memories is pretty huge. If a character has a brand new set of memories and experiences plugged in, they essentially become a new character entirely, no matter how they started out. The person I was replying to was confused why the unworthy Thor here wasn't worthy again, because he had become worthy right before that big fight with the Beyonders. and that's why. He obviously has no memory of becoming worthy again with Doom's whole re-writing of everyone's history. He's superficially very similar to the unworthy Thor running around in Jason Aaron's Thor book, but it's just impossible for him to be the same character in a whole lot of ways. the Thors by necessity had to have their memories altered more than most. I mean, Asgard and his entire family doesn't even exist any more. (and the same goes for every other character except the liferaft survivors, Doom, and Strange... and Deadpool's ghost, cus the whole 4th wall breaking and all. possibly a couple other exceptions yet to be revealed. I suspect Loki. But not Unworthy Thor.)

I suspect those saved by or resurrected by Doom had parts of their recent history erased, such as the 616 Iron Man no longer being the Superior Iron Man. So if the Unworthy Thor was the "real" Thor from Earth-616 it's possible Doom simply undid the stuff from his final battle with the Beyonders.

[Raye]

I suspect those saved by or resurrected by Doom had parts of their recent history erased, such as the 616 Iron Man no longer being the Superior Iron Man. So if the Unworthy Thor was the "real" Thor from Earth-616 it's possible Doom simply undid the stuff from his final battle with the Beyonders.

Entirely possible. That would explain why Tony is no longer 'superior' and Thor goes back to being unworthy. thinking about it logically, for at the very least the characters in Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers, they may have to go back before the incursions even started. Otherwise they kinda get stuck in a time loop of sorts. Like, they know they were fighting against all these incursions, and many of them crossed moral boundaries while doing so, so to have them just kinda stop when things get put back is just... odd... A little sad to have those stories just be kinda undone, though. I was enjoying Superior Iron Man I mean, I didn't want him to stay that way forever, but I wasn't looking for a do-over, forget it ever happened situation.

Another thing also just occurred to me about unworthy Thor here. Thor was nowhere near Earth when he (probably) died. If it's that people within an incursion area are the ones who get saved, (but memories rewritten) that means that unworthy Thor here is one of the ones Doom created from scratch because he was unable to save the original. OR he's from an alternate universe where the Beyonders fight just never happened.

[Noinden]

Could be. I have a hard time picturing any Thor (of the Odinson variety) killing Jane, though. but it was a big multiverse, you never know. And if he does remember his past world, it could cause him to snap. In any case, it was said that the body had been dead for 'months' but the bodies had been moved to locations to be found only within the past week. So obviously there is some elaborate thing going on here, the killer had been killing and hanging on to the bodies for MONTHS, and only now are they allowing them to be found. Clearly, some message is being sent. Does the killer want to remind the Thors of who they used to be in some twisted way?

Perhaps Ragnarock is here too? I could see that crazy Thor clone doing this!

[jackolover]

Perhaps Ragnarock is here too? I could see that crazy Thor clone doing this!

We don't know whose soul is in the Destroyer Thor. That could be a jealous Odin clone who disliked Jane Foster making Odin unworthy.

[Darth Phoenix]

Perhaps Ragnarock is here too? I could see that crazy Thor clone doing this!

I'm guessing he will be a Marvel Zombie

[Byakko]

Why not? Doom saved them, all he did extra was overwrite memories with fake ones.

There's proof that there's copies running around - there's a pre-Phoenix Scott right now in Ultimate End with the (supposed) 616 and Ultimate-verse group. We know this can't be the 'real' Scott because we have Phoenixed-Scott revealed on the raft in Secret Wars #3.

Therefore either we have copies, or that Doom grabbed people across time and space, so we will get versions of people further back in their timeline/history.

Whether or not they're 'copies', or simply the real people from different points in their history, remains to be seen.

On-topic:

Mutant racism makes so little sense here, and I don't even know why it's there. You have some Thors who are Asgardians - a race superior physically and magically. You have Beta Ray Bill - from the Corbonite race who are humanoid but of different color, and then Bill got gene-spliced into his current form. You have a fucking Frog Thor.

Why would you pick on someone whose racial power is to control the weather? Or on a race whose sole signifier is "they get superpowers"!?

Really, the 'mutant racism' angle has seen less and less point in modern Marvel, because everyone and their fucking dog has superpowers. It only really works in a very narrow context, like the MCU/Fox-movies where meta-humans are rare, so mutant racism and fear makes a lot of sense.

That context does not include people who are all different races with different superpowers. And where superpowers help their jobs.

[Sardorim]

There are copies and there are real versions.

Spider-Gwen proves that as does the Spiderverse team. 616 and 1610 are specifically said to be in their zone, not an AU take of them. Thus the characters there are real, only iffy ones are the ones who have Life Raft members.

[Byakko]

There are copies and there are real versions.

Spider-Gwen proves that as does the Spiderverse team. 616 and 1610 are specifically said to be in their zone, not an AU take of them. Thus the characters there are real, only iffy ones are the ones who have Life Raft members.

To clarify, is that in-universe said by a character, by the writer for the series?

The thing is that because there are iffy characters, that places suspicion of authenticity on all of them. It can't be just one special snowflake out of the group, not unless Doom is specifically repairing team line-ups by inserting copies or time-displaced versions of specific members. I don't think he'd micromanage to that extent.

But taking into account ability to pull time-displaced versions effectively handles both 'copies' and 'authenticity'. They are the real ones, just from different times other than the absolute present at the point of incursions.

[PiercedMonk]

Mutant racism makes so little sense here, and I don't even know why it's there. You have some Thors who are Asgardians - a race superior physically and magically. You have Beta Ray Bill - from the Corbonite race who are humanoid but of different color, and then Bill got gene-spliced into his current form. You have a fucking Frog Thor.

Why would you pick on someone whose racial power is to control the weather? Or on a race whose sole signifier is "they get superpowers"!?

Really, the 'mutant racism' angle has seen less and less point in modern Marvel, because everyone and their fucking dog has superpowers. It only really works in a very narrow context, like the MCU/Fox-movies where meta-humans are rare, so mutant racism and fear makes a lot of sense.

That context does not include people who are all different races with different superpowers. And where superpowers help their jobs.

Mutant discrimination has less to do with fear of dangerous people -- though that's certainly a factor -- than it does fear of an other. That's the thing about bigotry: it never makes sense. It's all just in-group vs. out-group dynamics.

That said, Rune Thor's discrimination against mutants has very little to do pre-established reasons for anti-mutant sentiment, and everything to do with cop drama archetypes. It seems that the characters on THORS are even further disassociated from their more familiar incarnations than most of Battleworld's inhabitants. Ultimate Thor was a social justice advocate and rabble-rouser, not an investigative prodigy, and Throg was certainly never a forensic scientist. Rune Thor fits the police drama role of the loud, boorish, jackass cop whom the others can barely tolerate. If he wasn't a Thor, he'd likely also be overweight and unkempt, just to fit the trope better. Mutants are a convenient focus for his bigotry -- though probably not the only one -- because of their extant status in almost every version of the Marvel universe.

Which is interesting. Obviously it makes sense within the story to differentiate between the various Thors so they're not just carbon copies of one another, but having them conform to police drama roles would seem to imply something about the nature of Battleworld, and about Doom's thought process in it's construction. If the heavily meta analysis that Battleworld is constructed not from actual fragments of other realities, but from stories and ideas is correct within the context of the story itself, then Doom's blending of the Thors with cop drama archetypes makes a lot of sense, provided you assume Doom enjoys watching -- or is at least familiar with -- police procedurals.

Or maybe Jason Aaron just thought it would be a fun take on this concept.