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  1. #46
    Askani'Son Drakeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    To clarify, is that in-universe said by a character, by the writer for the series?

    The thing is that because there are iffy characters, that places suspicion of authenticity on all of them. It can't be just one special snowflake out of the group, not unless Doom is specifically repairing team line-ups by inserting copies or time-displaced versions of specific members. I don't think he'd micromanage to that extent.

    But taking into account ability to pull time-displaced versions effectively handles both 'copies' and 'authenticity'. They are the real ones, just from different times other than the absolute present at the point of incursions.
    Exactly! Doom would never just create a few characters for shitts and giggles. Ultimate End is a special case and as Bendis has said, it will get explained (hopefully) in due time.

    As for Spiderverse, thats another special case. Spidersense is making them aware that something is wrong and thier memories are muddled but it doesnt outright mean they are 616 versions. Only that doom messed with memories, which he has done to everyone on Battleworld to hide the true 8 year timeline.

    Everyone Dies! Except Doom, Strange and the life raft survivors. Thats the whole point of the story.
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  2. #47
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Jason Aaron is having fun with this becauepse he's sneaked in mention of unworthiness and Jane Foster. And this must be set before Secret Wars #2 because the dead old man Thor is here named as the one eyed Lawspeaker. But it looks like one eyed Lawspeaker has blond hair. But the one eyed old man Thor killed in SW#2 had a red beard, so this Lawspeaker is someone else. This has to be after SW#2, especially because of Beta Ray Bill Thor.

    spoilers:
    this is set in Weirdworld. A dead body months old, of a woman, was recently dumped here, and an anonymous tip of brought a Thor to discover it. The rest of the Thors have to solve this case, (5 cases of murder in 5 different domains), or if Doom gets involved, hammers are taken away from Thors.m there is some bickering among the Thors, but they organise and find out all 5 women are the same person - Jane Foster. So now they have to warn all the other versions of Jane on Battleworld, and that means Jane Foster Thor of the Thor Corps. Trouble is, finding out the information killed Beta Ray Bill Thor, so this must be after Secret Wars # 2 because Bill appears in other books. Bill went to a source, and turns out it is Loki, but there is a lightening strike and Bill is dying and dies telling about Jane.
    end of spoilers

    5 Jane Fosters is about the limit on Battleworld for any character, except Logan, as far as I have been keeping track, so keeping Jane Thor safe is going to be very difficult if Bill can be disposed of. We are not talking just any Sheriff here, but Bill is one of the top ones, and any one powerful enough to be bumping off a Thor is going to be some mean hombre. My bet is its Destroyer Thor.

    Jason Aaron has set up one juicy murder mystery.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    It is also worth considering that Aaron has been writing around the subject of the forging of the hammer and its inscription for many months now and he has stated he will be addressing it directly after Secret Wars, so we know that he is particularly interested in this subject.

    But, I can't help thinking there was another hammer floating around outside the crack in reality, and it was right next to Doom when he presumably projected a portion of reality through that crack to begin his new creation.
    Can you cite the reference pic where you saw this hammer?

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noinden View Post
    Perhaps Ragnarock is here too? I could see that crazy Thor clone doing this!
    We don't know whose soul is in the Destroyer Thor. That could be a jealous Odin clone who disliked Jane Foster making Odin unworthy.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Abe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Can you cite the reference pic where you saw this hammer?
    I think JKtheMac is referring to the Thorr hammer for the unworthy ones. Odinson left it beneath the Beyonders' crack in reality in NA 32. It's still there in NA 33. Just would like to add that the World Tree created by the Ex Nihili and Abyss from a Beyonder is very likely the one on which God Emperor Doom thrones. Important stuffs in the last issues of New Avengers !

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abe View Post
    I think JKtheMac is referring to the Thorr hammer for the unworthy ones. Odinson left it beneath the Beyonders' crack in reality in NA 32. It's still there in NA 33. Just would like to add that the World Tree created by the Ex Nihili and Abyss from a Beyonder is very likely the one on which God Emperor Doom thrones. Important stuffs in the last issues of New Avengers !
    Exactly on all counts, including the tree.
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  7. #52
    Mighty Member shgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    Mutant racism makes so little sense here, and I don't even know why it's there. You have some Thors who are Asgardians - a race superior physically and magically. You have Beta Ray Bill - from the Corbonite race who are humanoid but of different color, and then Bill got gene-spliced into his current form. You have a fucking Frog Thor.

    Why would you pick on someone whose racial power is to control the weather? Or on a race whose sole signifier is "they get superpowers"!?

    Really, the 'mutant racism' angle has seen less and less point in modern Marvel, because everyone and their fucking dog has superpowers. It only really works in a very narrow context, like the MCU/Fox-movies where meta-humans are rare, so mutant racism and fear makes a lot of sense.

    That context does not include people who are all different races with different superpowers. And where superpowers help their jobs.
    All the mutant realms have still experienced anti-mutant prejudice within their individual territories. This would make them insular and suspicious of non-mutant authorities. Hence, Runey complains that 'no one ever sees anything in those damn places'. This insularity in turn antagonises non-mutants and fosters further prejudice. The fact the mutant territories are particularly problematic is suggested in X-Tinction Agenda when Doom calls them a blight upon the world (not, I don't think, because of what they are genetically, but because they always seem to be involved in trouble and disaster).

    So really it makes perfect sense.

  8. #53
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    Oh my God, this was good. I didn't know that I needed a Thor-themed take on a police procedural in my life but it turns out I did! I love how Aaron includes all the conventions of the genre - the gruff, disapproving captain, the partner that falls in the line of duty - and is able to play them with a slight wink but also completely straight. Great start to the series - makes me wish it could continue on after SW.

  9. #54
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear of Bashenga View Post
    The recap page for each issue should be a take on the opening credits of "Cops" or even better "Hill Street Blues."
    Oh gods... having some fat Thor (Volstagg-Thor?) doing roll call for a page. Brillilant!
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  10. #55
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
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    I like Thor Corps, I hope it survives into post-Secret Wars world. I like Ultimate Thor too, he would be cool.

  11. #56
    Mighty Member Byakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shgs View Post
    All the mutant realms have still experienced anti-mutant prejudice within their individual territories. This would make them insular and suspicious of non-mutant authorities. Hence, Runey complains that 'no one ever sees anything in those damn places'. This insularity in turn antagonises non-mutants and fosters further prejudice. The fact the mutant territories are particularly problematic is suggested in X-Tinction Agenda when Doom calls them a blight upon the world (not, I don't think, because of what they are genetically, but because they always seem to be involved in trouble and disaster).

    So really it makes perfect sense.
    The prejudice is entirely manufactured at this point, based on a story concept from over two decades ago. The Marvel universe is saturated with people with superpowers from so many different sources, is being born with it legitimately a big concern anymore? Considering the kind of threats that apparently 616 goes through on a global scale, you know what, superpowers are a boon. There's no logical reason at this point to assume anything otherwise. If you can have superpowers, you will live longer when the big bad thingie attacks Earth.

    It's like everyone in every other Marvel story is genre savvy enough to realize superpowers = good thing, except in any story involving mutants in some story capacity. At that point it's 'you people' or 'anti-mutant' blargahlghalgalhglahlghla.

    Just imagine taking the story tact that Captain America used steroids to get his superpowers, turn into an anti-drug PSA, and then drag that story for over 30 years.

    That's Marvel's treatment of mutants at this point.

    Though there is something to be said that Doom assumes that being hated on is like, the normal story of mutants, so when recreating the world he really couldn't leave that part of their story out.

    But it's so blatantly out of place in the greater scheme of things that it's laughable, just shows how outdated that aspect of mutant stories has gotten.
    Last edited by Byakko; 06-18-2015 at 06:10 AM.

  12. #57
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    The prejudice is entirely manufactured at this point, based on a story concept from over two decades ago. The Marvel universe is saturated with people with superpowers from so many different sources, is being born with it legitimately a big concern anymore? Considering the kind of threats that apparently 616 goes through on a global scale, you know what, superpowers are a boon. There's no logical reason at this point to assume anything otherwise. If you can have superpowers, you will live longer when the big bad thingie attacks Earth.

    It's like everyone in every other Marvel story is genre savvy enough to realize superpowers = good thing, except in any story involving mutants in some story capacity. At that point it's 'you people' or 'anti-mutant' blargahlghalgalhglahlghla.

    Though there is something to be said that Doom assumes that being hated on is like, the normal story of mutants, so when recreating the world he really couldn't leave that part of their story out.

    But it's so blatantly out of place in the greater scheme of things that it's laughable.
    Superpowers are anything but a boon. Look at how much destruction they cause. They're more like a contagious disease.

    But the racism thing is not out of place in the greater scheme. It only drives the point of how idiotic such feelings are.
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  13. #58
    Mighty Member Byakko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    Superpowers are anything but a boon. Look at how much destruction they cause. They're more like a contagious disease.
    That's an issue with the people who get them more than anything. Also depending on which timeline we're on. Celestials deliberately turning humans into superpowered antibodies in that Earth X series for one.

    And I'm just going to reiterate here. The context the anti-mutant story point is used in this issue, is that for some reason Rune Thor thinks that the Thor who a) looks as humanoid as he does and b) has natural weather powers, is a higher candidate for racial discrimination over the horse-faced Thor, the tree Thor, and the fucking frog Thor.

    This literally makes no sense except to hammer in how mutant discrimination just comes with having a mutant in the story, even if the context makes it look stupid.

    Maybe they should make it a canon reason. Mutants release some pheromones that make every non-mutant just hate them, it's the only explanation!

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member vitruvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakeon View Post
    Exactly! Doom would never just create a few characters for shitts and giggles. Ultimate End is a special case and as Bendis has said, it will get explained (hopefully) in due time.

    As for Spiderverse, thats another special case. Spidersense is making them aware that something is wrong and thier memories are muddled but it doesnt outright mean they are 616 versions. Only that doom messed with memories, which he has done to everyone on Battleworld to hide the true 8 year timeline.

    Everyone Dies! Except Doom, Strange and the life raft survivors. Thats the whole point of the story.
    If Strange says they saved what they could, they saved what they could, and therefore some number of the inhabitants of Battleworld are folks from the earlier universes that did not die but were saved.
    Last edited by vitruvian; 06-18-2015 at 07:33 AM.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    5 Jane Fosters is about the limit on Battleworld for any character, except Logan, as far as I have been keeping track, so keeping Jane Thor safe is going to be very difficult if Bill can be disposed of. We are not talking just any Sheriff here, but Bill is one of the top ones, and any one powerful enough to be bumping off a Thor is going to be some mean hombre. My bet is its Destroyer Thor.

    Jason Aaron has set up one juicy murder mystery.
    I don't think there is any sort of limit on how many times a character can appear on Battleworld, except in the case of Doom, maybe Strange. the multiverse was infinite, so there are potentially an infinite number of Janes. I mean if you want to put a limit on it, there are 40 domains, so that may be the upper limit of how many times a character can appear, but we know that some domains are actually made up of refugees from worlds that did not get a full domain, so there are potentially more than that. It's just that the writers of the event only have so many stories to tell with assorted characters, and more popular characters are going to turn up more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noinden View Post
    Perhaps Ragnarock is here too? I could see that crazy Thor clone doing this!
    that could be fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Byakko View Post
    That's an issue with the people who get them more than anything. Also depending on which timeline we're on. Celestials deliberately turning humans into superpowered antibodies in that Earth X series for one.

    And I'm just going to reiterate here. The context the anti-mutant story point is used in this issue, is that for some reason Rune Thor thinks that the Thor who a) looks as humanoid as he does and b) has natural weather powers, is a higher candidate for racial discrimination over the horse-faced Thor, the tree Thor, and the fucking frog Thor.

    This literally makes no sense except to hammer in how mutant discrimination just comes with having a mutant in the story, even if the context makes it look stupid.

    Maybe they should make it a canon reason. Mutants release some pheromones that make every non-mutant just hate them, it's the only explanation!
    shgs has already explained this, but it it's not so much that Runey has anything to fear from mutants, or anything like that. It's got nothing at all with what mutants can do or what they look like. It's that because mutants have been oppressed by authority figures in their own domains, they have become exceptionally hard for police to work with, which makes him frustrated with the mutant domains, which then turns into a dislike of mutants, so then maybe he (and others like him) deal with the mutants domains harshly, which then just feeds the mutant domains distrust of authority figures, and it just feeds on itself.

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