Thor's #1 thoughts *SPOILERS*

[jphamlore]

I don't think that for rune thor or Doom that is the problem.
The problem is, the mutant by their own nature are AGAINST the status quo. It is in their name, it is in the X-men mission, it is in their own nature coded to DNA level. Their are the next step. A mutation. A change in the base order.
And consider all of you guys, that Battleworld is RUN on status Quo. Barons are allowed to do as they please, as long they keep it. Chang eis not welcome in the jolly Doom's world. Also Mutants, as pointed out and due to this rebellious nature, are always involved in conflicts that always menace to spread beyond borders(the main fear..no better worry..about mutants is that the various mutant domain will become aware of each others and this could lead to them pulling together their efforts. Now the Barons - oddly more than a magneto- are on board of the Doom's ship, but is mostly a ruse. All barons are conspiring, either for desire of freedom or because their ego can't tollerate no being THEM the god emperor of Battlewordl.
In this context Thors, as main symbols of "the Man", the right hand of a pantheorn that fear any social change like it was the next ragnarok and that is classist and authoritarian to the point of self lesionism(flaws that oddly Loki himslef pointed out, even before his awesome Teen phase), are the obvious perfect choice for Doom's army.
AND Rune Thor is probably one more close to the most darker roots of the thor myth, and probably dislike Stormborn because:
a)she is a mutant, a race always causing trouble and not accepting their roles in life, much like Trolls and Frost Giants, always whining for better landas and better treatments- (if one think Trolls are treated like they are ***t in Asgard, regardless of what they actually do...)
b) She is a woman. good chance Rune Thor share the same chauvinistic feeling of Old man Odin about a female thor
c) She is Black...Again I got the feeling the Rune Thor would prefer all Thors to be from pure Viking lineage...

You and I are actually in agreement I think. Clyde Wyncham in Millar's 1985 was a reality-warper who could devastate universes who was born into a world similar to ours in 1985. So mutants are indeed by nature completely unpredictable wildcards who by nature challenge and can destroy the natural order.

[jackolover]

Tom Breevot confirmed Lawspeaker and SW #2 dead Thor aren't the same character...

That's good. It would have been an art error if they were the same.

[jackolover]

Awesome first issue. Has anyone mentioned how similar the wound on BRT was to the one on Syder over in Armor Wars?

I assume you mean Beta Ray Bills wounds. How similar are they to Spyders wounds? Bill hardly looked injured.

[dswynne]

The prejudice is entirely manufactured at this point, based on a story concept from over two decades ago. The Marvel universe is saturated with people with superpowers from so many different sources, is being born with it legitimately a big concern anymore? Considering the kind of threats that apparently 616 goes through on a global scale, you know what, superpowers are a boon. There's no logical reason at this point to assume anything otherwise. If you can have superpowers, you will live longer when the big bad thingie attacks Earth.

It's like everyone in every other Marvel story is genre savvy enough to realize superpowers = good thing, except in any story involving mutants in some story capacity. At that point it's 'you people' or 'anti-mutant' blargahlghalgalhglahlghla.

Just imagine taking the story tact that Captain America used steroids to get his superpowers, turn into an anti-drug PSA, and then drag that story for over 30 years.

That's Marvel's treatment of mutants at this point.

Though there is something to be said that Doom assumes that being hated on is like, the normal story of mutants, so when recreating the world he really couldn't leave that part of their story out.

But it's so blatantly out of place in the greater scheme of things that it's laughable, just shows how outdated that aspect of mutant stories has gotten.

I thought Marvel recont the reason for the anti-mutant hysteria as being purposeful, that the reason was because of an ancient super-villain named Sublime fear mutants for their innate ability to resist being controlled by it?

[Drakeon]

I'm pretty sure that when Doom and Strange talk about saving people that's who they're referring to, but until it's established somewhere in the actual book we'll have to agree to disagree.

Hickman himself confirmed this as fact in the Secret Wars #3 interview.

[Raye]

Oh I think Doom has limited one in particular. We've seen zero hint of ANY Reed Richards. Yet there are two running around, thanks to life rafts. Doom is going to be royally pissed at that! Because if there is anyone Victor does not want spoiling his creation it is Reed.

oh, right about that. I forgot about Reed somehow. But in general, for the vast majority of characters, I don't think Doom is consciously choosing to exclude alts. A few notable exceptions aside. But I think Jane Foster is nowhere on his radar.

[Raye]

Ah, I must have missed where he said that. I'm somewhat surprised that's the case seeing as all the characters lost in the liferaft malfunction are the ones serving in Doom's court. That's an odd dramatic decision. Chekhov would not approve.

Yeah, it is a bit odd, narratively. But the 'gun' may be used elsewhere yet...

[PiercedMonk]

Yeah, it is a bit odd, narratively. But the 'gun' may be used elsewhere yet...

Until book proves otherwise, I'm just going to believe that Hickman's statements were deliberate falsehoods. I couldn't speculate as to why he wouldn't just say that he doesn't want to give away story details before the book comes out.

Entirely possible that I'm wrong, and the story that Hickman delivers will blow me away and make perfect sense, but I've decided to stubbornly dig my heels in on this one.

[Drakeon]

It makes perfect sense to me. They died and he saved alt versions of them as well as not being able to heal his face cause its all part of his mental state and ego. He has always wanted everything Reed has and now hes surrounded himself with it. If they didnt die it wouldnt be as emotionally scarring for Reed when he lost them.

[Nyadnar17]

I assume you mean Beta Ray Bills wounds. How similar are they to Spyders wounds? Bill hardly looked injured.

headdesk. I read a bunch of books at the same time and got confused. Squadron Sinister #1 is the book with similar wounds.

[Lourde]

Really, saturated? Marvel claims to have 9,000+ characters on its website. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that all these characters are earth-based, super-powered non-mutants even though the actual number is much lower. That's around about 0.00013% of the Earth's population having non-mutant superpowers by my estimation, even when overestimating massively. How is that saturated?

By contrast, there were around 16,000,000 mutants on Genosha alone, before Cassandra Nova's genocide. Unlike other super powered individuals, who tend to acquire their abilities in freak accidents or other unique, unrepeatable circumstances, mutants are simply born with powers. Not only do mutant parents beget mutant children, but non-mutants often give birth to mutants. Thus, not only is the mutant population, at its peak, far more significant that the non-mutant super-powered population, but it is capable of increasing in number in a way that the population of other super-powered beings simply cannot. Given that humans have mutant babies with relative consistency, but mutants extremely rarely give birth to non-mutants, the mutant race will continue to increase whilst the human race gradually decreases if left unchecked. Add the fact that this race that is destined to replace humanity has innate and often weaponisable superpowers, and it is hardly surprising that humans see them as a threat.



Superpowers = good thing? So Carnage = good thing? Elektro = good thing? The Hulk on a rampage = good thing? Sabertooth = good thing? There are a **** ton of supervillains and otherwise terrifying super powered individuals. Superheores = good thing, because they use their powers for good. Supervillains = bad thing, and of course people are scared of them. The thing with mutants is that - unlike superheroes and villains, which make up nearly every superpowered non-mutant - the majority of them don't tend to place themselves so obviously into the category of good or bad. A guy with the power to breath fire might work at a petrol station. The guy with razor sharp claws might work at a book shop. These people could be perfectly reasonable, or they could be psychotic killers and you'd never know. That's kinda terrifying.



Therein lies the point. With mutant powers pretty much anyone could be given catastrophic and deadly superpowers, regardless of how malicious, unstable, sadistic, or straight up evil they are.



It's got nothing to do with what she looks like. Firstly, racial prejudice is not just about superficial looks in real life (e.g. there is a fair bit prejudice towards Eastern Europeans in the UK, though we are all white) nor has superficial similarity ever prevented gay people, for instance, from being persecuted. Secondly, he is not derogatory of the characteristics that make Storm a mutant, he is simply derogatory towards the various mutant communities. This is Runey denigrating people because they come from a certain geographic area and/or community (which happens even within individual towns in the real world, let alone between different ethnicities or races) not simply because they are genetically different from him.

Just one question, are not mutants human beings? In the MU you will be loved if you are a science freak, or empowered by magical powers, or even mutated by a foreign substance. All that goes away if you are outed as a mutant. In the MU anyone can be imbued with powers that doesn't make everyone afraid of each other. Why is it that mutants can be mistreated? Rune Thor was definitely basing his comments on mutations not affiliation.

[PiercedMonk]

Just one question, are not mutants human beings? In the MU you will be loved if you are a science freak, or empowered by magical powers, or even mutated by a foreign substance. All that goes away if you are outed as a mutant. In the MU anyone can be imbued with powers that doesn't make everyone afraid of each other. Why is it that mutants can be mistreated? Rune Thor was definitely basing his comments on mutations not affiliation.

I think Spider-Man -- THREAT OR MENACE? -- might disagree with you that people with powers are universally loved by the Marvel populace.

And again, bigotry doesn't make sense. It's based on ignorance, and fear, and somehow seeing the victims as less than human, not some sort of outside observer's perfect logic. I'm not to drag real world tragedy into a discussion about fictional people in silly costumes who fight crime by shooting lasers from their nipples, but if you can figure out the motivations for some of the horrible events that have happened just this week in the real world, then you'll have your answer as to why mutants are discriminated against.

[Byakko]

I think Spider-Man -- THREAT OR MENACE? -- might disagree with you that people with powers are universally loved by the Marvel populace.

And again, bigotry doesn't make sense. It's based on ignorance, and fear, and somehow seeing the victims as less than human, not some sort of outside observer's perfect logic. I'm not to drag real world tragedy into a discussion about fictional people in silly costumes who fight crime by shooting lasers from their nipples, but if you can figure out the motivations for some of the horrible events that have happened just this week in the real world, then you'll have your answer as to why mutants are discriminated against.

Bigotry is based on stupidity, and focuses on superficial things. The thing is that mutants on the surface, superficially have little difference with the vast majority of not just the human populace, but with the vast majority of the 'suspiciously human looking' greater Marvel cosmic universe as well.

There are too few superficial differences between mutants and the majority of the superpowered populace to make any kind of bigotry make sense. Among the aliens, the god-beings, the cosmic beings and such, mutants are not notably special or distinct.

There's a plotline in Busiek's Astro City where the Franklin-analog, Astra, who is a superhero and important on Earth, is considerably less pressured or scrutinized when she stays with the multi-alien populace of a cosmic nexus. She is not special there.

Storm in this context, in her organization, is not special.

FYI, in the real world I am the result of the inter-marriage of two distinct cultures - the Strait Chinese immigrants and the local Malay peoples. This happened at least 3-4 generations ago in my family. We formed our own culture as a result, the Peranakans.

In the real world, racial discrimination doesn't just 'happen' just because two races are different. The Chinese are Asian, the Malays are dark skinned. The cultures come from two different countries, have different customs and religion, yet still melded so successfully that the combination of the two races has become a distinct culture by itself. In another country (like in fact, our neighbours Malaysia), the different skin tones may have been enough for tension to prevent this melding, but apparently not in my country (Singapore) at that point in time and contact.

Like everything, there must be circumstances, context, and still reasons for anything to occur. This includes racial discrimination.

I assert that in the context of the Battleworld story, especially with what is shown, the prejudice that mutants are suppose to get does not make sense. It is manufactured to fulfill the status quo of their over-arcing 'story', which is always to play as the discriminated against 'second class'. The original fear for mutants were from normal humans, who have no powers. This doesn't work if Storm's peers have powers. If it was based on appearance, Storm is one of the worst possible choices to pin that kind of bigotry on, not with a talking tree and a frog in their cohort, and from a peer who is closer to her body shape.

If mutants are to have meaning as 'a discrimination story', it has to be a better context, it has to be better written. Inserting it willy-nilly merely lessens the message. I also think they have to move past this story to become something more than an analog of all the racially discriminated against peoples off the world, though I do not know how.

[Joe Acro]

Overall, I enjoyed the issue. I like the mystery; I like the execution of the Thors concept. It's a shame about Bill. I like Bill and always hope to see him do well.

My only actual concerns are these:

If the Thors need a medical examiner, why not use Jane? Thordis, after all, appears on one of the covers. She should be here somewhere. Or is she higher up the chain of command because on her world she was queen? As amusing as it is that Throg is in that role, nothing in his background suggests he's a good fit for it.

Weirdworld doesn't look like Weirdworld. Aaron writes both titles, so this is a little odd. Admittedly, we haven't seen a lot of Weirdworld on-panel, but does it have a desert area? It just seems like a generic place, like the artist wasn't told where it would be set, so he drew something that fits almost anywhere.

[Drakeon]

The Jane Thor on covers I think is the 616 Jane who will show up after Secret Wars #4.

Same with Peter Quill in Starlord and Kitty Pryde and Miles in Ultimate End #4.