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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Default I really would like to see other rogues besides Joker get attention

    To me it's a little unfortunate that Joker as much as I love him hogs all the lime light and I'd like to see the other rogues get attention. Personally I'd like to see some team ups like in the Burton movies maybe add a darker element and yes I know the movies are not well liked particularly the last two but as a little kid I loved them and as an adult I have a nostagic fondness for them. I like the idea of Riddler and Twoface working together like Twoface using Riddler for his smarts and Riddler using Harvey for his resources. I can see tension stemming from Twoface always using his coin and Riddler having to leave a riddle I think them both getting upset over that would be an interesting dynamic.

    I also like the idea of Ivy trying to make power moves in Gotham maybe at first getting control of Bane and turning him into her love slave or whatever and using him for his strength and skills. I also could see her wanting to use Freeze and growing obsessed when he turns out to be immune to her charm. Which could motivate her to off his wife and lie to him about what happened but for Freeze to learn the truth in the end and after getting his wife back punishing Ivy by freezing her. I can also see Penguin blackmailing Catwoman into helping him or something like that.

  2. #2
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    To me it's a little unfortunate that Joker as much as I love him hogs all the lime light and I'd like to see the other rogues get attention.
    Like Scarecrow getting the lime light in Fear State? Riddler in Zero Year (I'm not a ZY fan, but he get serious attention in it)? Two-Face was extra marketed some in that Scott Snyder/Romita Jr All Star Batman arc? Bane in King's run? We're seeing others get some attention again. So it seems like you're not crediting DC enough for recent enough instances that go against this perception of yours.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    Personally I'd like to see some team ups like in the Burton movies ... like Twoface using Riddler for his smarts and Riddler using Harvey for his resources. I can see tension stemming from Twoface always using his coin and Riddler having to leave a riddle I think them both getting upset over that would be an interesting dynamic.
    There a lot of little villain team ups, but here I think I know what you mean, and for once I can agree: More intimate substantive villain team ups in bigger highly marketed mainstream arcs.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 12-03-2021 at 12:19 PM.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Yeah I can't really say there's a lot of Joker oversaturation in the comics right now. They've been doing a pretty good job of using him sparingly while utilizing other rogues. Almost to the point where I'd say we barely even see the Joker anymore.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Like Scarecrow getting the lime light in Fear State? Riddler in Zero Year (I'm not a ZY fan, but he get serious attention in it)? Two-Face is a big marketed Scott Snyder/Romita Jr All Star Batman arc? Bane in King's run? We're seeing others get some attention again. It seems like you're not crediting DC enough for recent enough instances that go against this perception of yours.
    Scarecrow wasn't really used that well in Fear State and neither was Bane in King's run. So a little more quality stories with them might help.

  5. #5
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Scarecrow wasn't really used that well in Fear State and neither was Bane in King's run. So a little more quality stories with them might help.
    I'd argue that Scarecrow was used as well as he could be , and Bane was used really well in the first half of King's run.
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  6. #6
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    My main problem with Joker is that most of the time that he is the main villain, it has to be an all-changing, city in danger, epic. And I also have a problem when we get many of those storylines featuring different villains in a short time. I get than self-contained issues are not the norm nowadays, but I would be fine with arcs consisting mostly of 3-4 issues, against different villains, old and new. Batman solving a case that involves corruption, robbery, blackmail, etcetera, without the future of Gotham in peril. Each age has it's tendencies, but I've become a little bored of the current one.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    My main problem with Joker is that most of the time that he is the main villain, it has to be an all-changing, city in danger, epic. And I also have a problem when we get many of those storylines featuring different villains in a short time. I get than self-contained issues are not the norm nowadays, but I would be fine with arcs consisting mostly of 3-4 issues, against different villains, old and new. Batman solving a case that involves corruption, robbery, blackmail, etcetera, without the future of Gotham in peril. Each age has it's tendencies, but I've become a little bored of the current one.
    This is not really a Joker issue so much as just a genral issue with the Batman comic. Every villain that gets a huge story makes it an all-changing, city in danger, epic.

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'd argue that Scarecrow was used as well as he could be , and Bane was used really well in the first half of King's run.
    Not as well as he was hyped to be in marketing in my opinion.

    I think King's Bane was okay in the first half at least as far as re-establishing him (and setting aside the King-isms that were starting to pop up in the first half of that run). But the promise of that second half twist was squandered and just overdid him.

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    This is not really a Joker issue so much as just a genral issue with the Batman comic. Every villain that gets a huge story makes it an all-changing, city in danger, epic.
    Agreed what I like about older comics is the stakes are "lower" but there's more tension. I loved some of the stories in No Man's Land with Twoface putting people on trial and using his coin to decide. There are many better examples but my point is a story doesn't have to be so "epic" to be good. The Long Halloween is a perfect example. My problem with Bane in City of Bane is how he's overshadowed by Thomas Wayne. I also hated what that story did to Flashpoint Batman. I feel it comes down to how boring the whole "Batgod" thing has gotten.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    Agreed what I like about older comics is the stakes are "lower" but there's more tension. I loved some of the stories in No Man's Land with Twoface putting people on trial and using his coin to decide. There are many better examples but my point is a story doesn't have to be so "epic" to be good. The Long Halloween is a perfect example. My problem with Bane in City of Bane is how he's overshadowed by Thomas Wayne. I also hated what that story did to Flashpoint Batman. I feel it comes down to how boring the whole "Batgod" thing has gotten.
    Yeah I think Morrison is the last main run that did this well. Mix in small stories. I do not mind a writer going epic if they spend a lot of time building to it with small stories. Those are typically my favorite(Long Halloween being my favorite Bat story). Loved Snyders Black Mirror but once he got on the main Batbook, his over the top, every arc is Blockbuster event kind of dragged the run down for me. It`s why Year One is the superior origin to Zero Year.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    This is not really a Joker issue so much as just a genral issue with the Batman comic. Every villain that gets a huge story makes it an all-changing, city in danger, epic.
    I agree, but I think The Joker suffers more from it, at least since The New 52
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  12. #12
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    Could be cool if in the new Batman trilogy Joker dont exist and they use other villains instead

  13. #13
    Mighty Member marvelprince's Avatar
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    We can’t be seeing the same books. Joker may not be the only villain in the main books but he dominates the line. How many Bat villains have their own series? Plus he’s got like three or four spin-off books where he’s either the lead or main villain (Criminal Sanity, Puzzlebox, Batman/Catwoman and White Knight), recently got another movie adaptation of the Killing Joke and even in the main titles so many things that happened were attributed to what he did in Joker War. It’s another reason I really enjoyed Kings run, he didn’t use Joker as a crutch but still gave him the reverence the character deserved. I don’t think Tynion have Bane the same respect.

  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvelprince View Post
    We can’t be seeing the same books. Joker may not be the only villain in the main books but he dominates the line. How many Bat villains have their own series? Plus he’s got like three or four spin-off books where he’s either the lead or main villain (Criminal Sanity, Puzzlebox, Batman/Catwoman and White Knight), recently got another movie adaptation of the Killing Joke and even in the main titles so many things that happened were attributed to what he did in Joker War. It’s another reason I really enjoyed Kings run, he didn’t use Joker as a crutch but still gave him the reverence the character deserved. I don’t think Tynion have Bane the same respect.
    Not even King gave Bane the same respect by the end of his run in my opinion, even if it seems like he tried.

  15. #15
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvelprince View Post
    We can’t be seeing the same books. Joker may not be the only villain in the main books but he dominates the line. How many Bat villains have their own series? Plus he’s got like three or four spin-off books where he’s either the lead or main villain (Criminal Sanity, Puzzlebox, Batman/Catwoman and White Knight), recently got another movie adaptation of the Killing Joke and even in the main titles so many things that happened were attributed to what he did in Joker War. It’s another reason I really enjoyed Kings run, he didn’t use Joker as a crutch but still gave him the reverence the character deserved. I don’t think Tynion have Bane the same respect.
    This is my line of thinking, when was the last full year without a Joker appearance? That's just in comics. And the way he's been built as THE villain is beyond stale.

    I still like The Joker and he's a quintessential cornerstone of the Batman franchise, but ffs give him a rest so we can look forward to him returning and maybe be surprised by what he does.

    Honestly, the Bat-office needs some kind of villain check. Scarecrow just had Fear State so now he goes away for a year or two and we cycle in Riddle or Two-Face or Hugo Strange or a Clayface or Cornelius Stirk or Killer Moth or any number of other villains that populate Gotham. Heck, I don't think we've seen Catman since he went all Kraven in Secret Six.

    Batman has a HUGE rogue's gallery but even Scarecrow has felt a bit overused since the start of the New 52.
    Just. Be. Nice.

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