Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Jackalope89]

Tim was killed off for a bit.

Dick was “killed off” in universe, where the characters thought he was dead. But the readers knew he was alive the whole time.

Tim was? You mean during Rebirth? He wasn't. Oz kidnapped him just before he could be blown up and held him hostage in another dimension for awhile.

[phantom1592]

Tim was? You mean during Rebirth? He wasn't. Oz kidnapped him just before he could be blown up and held him hostage in another dimension for awhile.

That's what he said. The readers knew he was kidnapped, but as far as all the other characters knew... he was dead.

And Dick was 'killed off' for his Grayson run where everyone was upset that he didn't let them know he was alive.

[phantom1592]

You can handwave some superheroes, though, in a manner you cannot handwave Batman.

Spidey and most superhumans, typically, stumble across villains too powerful for the cops to handle without massive loss of life, same with Thor, Superman, etc. Functionally speaking, they're firefighters, addressing a threat as they see it and then going on their way (typically. Not always, but typically). They possess powers far above human enabling them to handle a crisis quicker with far less loss of life.

The same can't be said for Batman and his clan, though. They are exceptionally trained, but still human (within the confines of comics). And they are always involved in investigations, usually involving breaking and entering, assault and battery and I'm sure a few privacy invasions besides (is Gotham a two party consent state?)

Yeah, but it's still handwaving. It's one thing where you deal with giant robots or asteroids about to hit the earth or alien invasions.... but anything that actually involves the bad guys going to jail?! There are procedures that are necessary. Superman flying down and wrapping a lightpost around a jewel thief and leaving them for the cops... very illegal. Crooks can cry whiplash... brutality... The only evidence was something Superman saw with telescopic vison from two miles away... and isn't willing to testify in court about it... They're totally going to be on the street again in an hour.... or however long it takes to get a Light post unwrapped.

On the best of days, Super Heroes save A LOT of lives from things that normal police would never be able to deal with... The rest of the time they are a procedural nightmare and a DA's worst enemy. And I think that's the key. The cops know just how much they need the Heroes and how much good they do... Same way Gordon looks at Batman. but that never makes it 'legal' to do the things they do.

I mean the thing with kid heroes is more if they are human. Look at the Robins. They are in more danger when their first started. I mean dead children doesn't look good. No one is going to go after Batman for Robin dying. Than again they could.

That's the beauty of masks. Robin II didn't die... he retired and went to live on a farm upstate. Just like Robin I. The only person who says Robin II actually 'died' is Joker and he's crazy. Prove him wrong :P

[sifighter]

Honestly I hate the disconnect between “Batman” Batman and “DC Universe/Justice League” Batman. See the first is a gritty street hero who some people think works alone besides his Batfamily, can rarely be happy, and deals with gangsters and insane clowns and monsters. The other is considered one of the greatest heroes in the hero community, best friend to Superman and others in the league, has bizarre contingencies and access to a wide variety of dc items like Jarro or hellbat suits, has been to other worlds and dimensions, and is considered so smart and important that he has to be one of the first heroes taken out in a zombie story according to its author.

Personally I don’t want a serious Batman series, I want a Batman series where he will go do ridiculous things. I want to Batman track a money laundering/embezzlement scheme to the American consulate of gorilla city, I want him to solve murders of heads of states for the United planets. I’ll be frank about this, I wouldn’t mind the comics taking the fun energy from Batman the brave and the bold. Sure there can be a serious street crime series, even a couple issues but I kind of want fun Batman. Closest I’ve gotten as of late is Batman Universe.

[phantom1592]

Honestly I hate the disconnect between “Batman” Batman and “DC Universe/Justice League” Batman. See the first is a gritty street hero who some people think works alone besides his Batfamily, can rarely be happy, and deals with gangsters and insane clowns and monsters. The other is considered one of the greatest heroes in the hero community, best friend to Superman and others in the league, has bizarre contingencies and access to a wide variety of dc items like Jarro or hellbat suits, has been to other worlds and dimensions, and is considered so smart and important that he has to be one of the first heroes taken out in a zombie story according to its author.

Personally I don’t want a serious Batman series, I want a Batman series where he will go do ridiculous things. I want to Batman track a money laundering/embezzlement scheme to the American consulate of gorilla city, I want him to solve murders of heads of states for the United planets. I’ll be frank about this, I wouldn’t mind the comics taking the fun energy from Batman the brave and the bold. Sure there can be a serious street crime series, even a couple issues but I kind of want fun Batman. Closest I’ve gotten as of late is Batman Universe.

I kind of agree... but to a lesser extent. I frankly like something in the middle. To me, the core essence of Batman is that he's human. I think Bob Kane wrote in an interview. "He's not Superman. He's not invulnerable. Cut him and he bleeds... Shoot him and he dies." I love a good and grounded 'human' Batman. Adding too much power to the Human to make him equal to Superman or Darkseid... defeats the point. So yeah, I can do without the Jarros and Hellbat suits.

That said, he's a rich dude who dresses like a bat to scare clowns with his kid sidekicks... He should NOT be taken TOO serious. the more serious and gritty and grounded you make Batman... the more the entire mythos collapses under it's own absurdity. I love a good human Batman who just happens to be investigating ghosts or soemthing equeally weird and unprecedented. Brave and the Bold was a good series. I even love the old Adam West series. I still think my favorite era was around the neal Adam's bronze age stuff. Lot of weirdness... still human... best of bost worlds.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, but it's still handwaving. It's one thing where you deal with giant robots or asteroids about to hit the earth or alien invasions.... but anything that actually involves the bad guys going to jail?! There are procedures that are necessary. Superman flying down and wrapping a lightpost around a jewel thief and leaving them for the cops... very illegal. Crooks can cry whiplash... brutality... The only evidence was something Superman saw with telescopic vison from two miles away... and isn't willing to testify in court about it... They're totally going to be on the street again in an hour.... or however long it takes to get a Light post unwrapped.

On the best of days, Super Heroes save A LOT of lives from things that normal police would never be able to deal with... The rest of the time they are a procedural nightmare and a DA's worst enemy. And I think that's the key. The cops know just how much they need the Heroes and how much good they do... Same way Gordon looks at Batman. but that never makes it 'legal' to do the things they do.

Eh, it varies. Most superheroes catch criminals in the act operating in public (like Rhino literally breaking open a vault). With so many eye witnesses, it wouldn't matter if Spidey showed up in court or not

[phonogram12]

Was it? Again it wasn’t relevant, and part of the point was for Batgirl to be a new beginning for Steph.

It was. New beginnings don't mean you ignore a life changing events in a character's past. At least one mention would've done.

[randomideaguy]

Honestly I hate the disconnect between “Batman” Batman and “DC Universe/Justice League” Batman. See the first is a gritty street hero who some people think works alone besides his Batfamily, can rarely be happy, and deals with gangsters and insane clowns and monsters. The other is considered one of the greatest heroes in the hero community, best friend to Superman and others in the league, has bizarre contingencies and access to a wide variety of dc items like Jarro or hellbat suits, has been to other worlds and dimensions, and is considered so smart and important that he has to be one of the first heroes taken out in a zombie story according to its author.

Personally I don’t want a serious Batman series, I want a Batman series where he will go do ridiculous things. I want to Batman track a money laundering/embezzlement scheme to the American consulate of gorilla city, I want him to solve murders of heads of states for the United planets. I’ll be frank about this, I wouldn’t mind the comics taking the fun energy from Batman the brave and the bold. Sure there can be a serious street crime series, even a couple issues but I kind of want fun Batman. Closest I’ve gotten as of late is Batman Universe.

I first started reading around the time of Dick Grayson’s run as Batman. So my preferred (best of both worlds) scenario is to have Dick as Batman in the League and Bruce as Batman in Gotham.

[AmiMizuno]

I have been thinking. Would Dc actually have allowed Dan to kill Dick off? I mean Dick despite sales at times is still popular in the comics

[Will Evans]

I have been thinking. Would Dc actually have allowed Dan to kill Dick off? I mean Dick despite sales at times is still popular in the comics

It depends.

Dick Grayson is so popular and well known, that the only way to do his death would have to be a big crossover event like Death of Superman or Barry Allen in Crisis on Infinite Earths to pull off.

But then, Dan would have to admit that Dick was THAT popular to require that level of big crossover event in the first place. So then he wouldn’t do it.

It’s a catch-22

[phantom1592]

I have been thinking. Would Dc actually have allowed Dan to kill Dick off? I mean Dick despite sales at times is still popular in the comics

Sure... DC has never been against killing popular selling characters.

Keeping them dead would be a whole different thing. I can easily see them using Dick to boost some event or something... putting a replacement in his place... then a year later bringing him back.

[AmiMizuno]

Question has Batman ever goes and testify in court? Also, Superman and Wonder Woman have generally done speeches. Does Batman ever do that?

[Elmo]

Question has Batman ever goes and testify in court? Also, Superman and Wonder Woman have generally done speeches. Does Batman ever do that?

Batman cannot testify in court, if he did he would be prosecuted for his countless “crimes” such as assault and b&e in the pursuit of justice.

The Dark Knight returns has some of the best Bat speeches ever!!!

[AmiMizuno]

I mean since he doesn't go do these in Gotham, what makes other states or countries not arrest him? I mean is it because they are willing to overlook these things since he does more good?

[Gotham citizen]

Certain things happen because otherwise the title would already ended with Bruce imprisoned. The fictional premise of Batman is: Gotham is a city so messed up that also the help of a masked vigilante is welcomed, so the police, the magistrature and the politicians close their eyes. Anyway there are various stories, in which someone decided to put Batman in a jail, but those stories end every time in the same way: the person who wanted Batman in jail had a second thought; like it happened in "Prey" of Dough Moench.