Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Atlanta96]

Who's your favorite Robin? Who's your favorite Batgirl? Why do you like the 'Tec cast so much? Reflect upon that.

And new readers will certainly believe that Duke is a proper member of the Batfamily because he will have been a member of the Batfamily when they started. They literally would have no perspective of a time when he wasn't a member of the Batfamily in the proper context to believe otherwise.

Tim Drake was probably the 3rd Robin I was exposed to. I knew Dick from the Teen Titans and Batman TAS cartoons and the first Robin I read in the comics was Damian. I didn't get to any Tim stories until a while later. He's my favorite Robin now, what does that tell you?

I'd been reading Barbara Gordon Batgirl for a while before I read anything featuring Steph or Cass. I don't like them the best because I read them first, they are genuinely better characters to me. Your point is moot, readers aren't going to fall in love with Duke just because they read him first. If they have sensibilities they'll probably find him boring.

And you don't like Duke either so stop trying so hard to defend him, stick up for characters who actually deserve it instead.

[godisawesome]

I really don't think anyone can objectively grade Duke's appeal. Trying to say that the "sensible" view is that he's boring betrays a bias that can, eventually, turn out to be only temporary. I was very cool on Damian Wayne at first, even though I knew the concept had strength. I only really came around to him after seeing how he could be utilized alongside Tim and Steph, and now I'm a fan. And I didn't really care for *Tim* at first; I only started taking note of his appeal once I became a fan of Young Justice and his straight-man comic role became apparent. Arguing that Duke as an IP is eating up creative resources and page time that other already successful characters could have *may* be a valid point, but that's a temporary thing; eventually the paradigm will shift one way or another.

Hating on Duke is a waste of effort, at least at the moment. He doesn't even have any badly written character moments to justify the anger, in contrast to, say, Tarantula in the 2000s when the character was supposed to be both a protagonist (for a time) and Nightwing's rapist. The main overriding issue people have with Duke is founded entirely on the meta-level, and it's not worth arguing there; writers will only respond to the financial success of the character if they know the complaint isn't rooted in the character's portrayal.

Duke's fellow-traveler, Harper Rowe, shows what so fate may very well be of he doesn't fully catch on; a quiet fade into the background. And Harper arguably had a more intrusive push, considering her central role in two weeklies. I'd argue that she suffered from following what would be Stephanie Brown's plot beats, but I didn't hate her for that. And I can't hate Duke for existing as an IP when Tim's in Rebirth Rehab.

It's pointless.

[FishyZombie]

I really don't think anyone can objectively grade Duke's appeal. Trying to say that the "sensible" view is that he's boring betrays a bias that can, eventually, turn out to be only temporary. I was very cool on Damian Wayne at first, even though I knew the concept had strength. I only really came around to him after seeing how he could be utilized alongside Tim and Steph, and now I'm a fan. And I didn't really care for *Tim* at first; I only started taking note of his appeal once I became a fan of Young Justice and his straight-man comic role became apparent. Arguing that Duke as an IP is eating up creative resources and page time that other already successful characters could have *may* be a valid point, but that's a temporary thing; eventually the paradigm will shift one way or another.

Hating on Duke is a waste of effort, at least at the moment. He doesn't even have any badly written character moments to justify the anger, in contrast to, say, Tarantula in the 2000s when the character was supposed to be both a protagonist (for a time) and Nightwing's rapist. The main overriding issue people have with Duke is founded entirely on the meta-level, and it's not worth arguing there; writers will only respond to the financial success of the character if they know the complaint isn't rooted in the character's portrayal.

Duke's fellow-traveler, Harper Rowe, shows what so fate may very well be of he doesn't fully catch on; a quiet fade into the background. And Harper arguably had a more intrusive push, considering her central role in two weeklies. I'd argue that she suffered from following what would be Stephanie Brown's plot beats, but I didn't hate her for that. And I can't hate Duke for existing as an IP when Tim's in Rebirth Rehab.

It's pointless.

Very well said, and I absolutely agree. But what's an IP?

[Caivu]

Intellectual Property.

[FishyZombie]

Intellectual Property.

I was going to guess "important player," thanks Caivu

[dietrich]

Oh look.

Attachment 48755

Aioros22 has been defending Duke since June 2016, he hasn't been swayed at all. Nice try

Bloody good show Watson old chap!

Like i said I don't devote a portion of my day to Dukevestigations like you do hence why I've not been thorough and suck so bad at it. Next time while you're at it be helpful and check if the other poster I mentioned has been doing it since before I joined the site as well cos I could also be wrong about him/her there's a good lad.

We must all work together to rid our beloved Batman comics of the scourge of bad creative directions and bland useless characters.

Again good work. Clearly I was wrong Duke does not have any new supporters since I first joined this site.

[dietrich]

I'm not interested in arguing over politics. Point is, ypu never know who's going to win these battles anymore. Even if one side looks to have a 98% chance of winning, that 2% could still make all the difference.



I agree with this.

No Atlanta the point is that unlike you claim and like I claimed but failed to prove the attitude towards Duke on this site since Nov 2016 has changed.

NightwingIvI might not be a Duke cheerleader but his attitude certainly changed and I know there are more. He isn't a beloved fan favourite like Harper but he's also not as hated as you say he is.

[dietrich]

"Know no different"? LOL that's a bit patronizing. I'm not an avid manga reader but if I were to get into it I wouldn't call myself a fan of the first character I read if I thought they were boring and unlikable. New readers will pick and choose their favorites based on who's written best. They probably won't fall for the dullard in the Power Ranger getup.

What new fans will fall for a boring, unlikable piece of wood?
What new fans will gravitate towards Tim Drake ripoff Duke while the original dullard Tim Drake rots in Oz's Jail?

Mmmmm well ........ lol looks to me Atlanta that if you were a new reader. YOU would fall for Duke.



Not even gonna lie that thought gives me so much pleasure

[btmarine23]

Why don't they just kill Duke like every other Robin? They could then resurrect him and that could fail…then they can say "See death means something" Snyder has a dream where he can write Bruce with children and Boom! Cass is adopted, Steph is Robin and Damian is just his son. Or the resurrection just kind of fails and he becomes Solomon Grundy's sidekick named Ghoul or Wraith or Duke. Either way I like Duke.

[Atlanta96]

What new fans will fall for a boring, unlikable piece of wood?
What new fans will gravitate towards Tim Drake ripoff Duke while the original dullard Tim Drake rots in Oz's Jail?

Mmmmm well ........ lol looks to me Atlanta that if you were a new reader. YOU would fall for Duke.



Not even gonna lie that thought gives me so much pleasure

LOL nice try. The main difference between Tim and Duke is that Tim is charismatic and likable and expresses a wide range of emotions. Meanwhile Duke is so bland he can hardly be bothered to show any emotion at all most issues. And then there's the hideous costume, and the fact that his development moves at a snails pace, and his lack of standout qualities.

Just because the film Eragon is a ripoff of Star Wars doesn't mean that people who haven't seen Star Wars will love Eragon. Although that's not really fair, comparing that film to Duke is really insulting to Eragon

[sakuyamons]

Can't you guys have a proper discussion without calling characters names?

Tim is not dull, by the way. If he was dull he wouldn't be the only Robin that had an ongoing.

[Atlanta96]

Can't you guys have a proper discussion without calling characters names?

Tim is not dull, by the way.

They're fictional characters with no real feelings. Better to insult them than other posters, right?

[WonderNight]

well im just going to say i want steph to go join dick in nightwing and have her become dick's official partner /sidekick. it would give Steph a niche and a purpose all her own, also alot more room to grow with way more focus and panel time with just to main leads instead of 3 or 4 or 7 leads. Dick would gain a popular second lead and primary lead female like superman with lois, aquaman with mera ang green arrow with black canary. also bring both they fanbases together and both more popular.

plus we'd get alot more damian and steph when he shows up in nightwing. plus you can steal get your steph and cass and tim and harper etc in guses, coss and events.

that's what I want, is everyone else cool with this?

[nightbird]

They're fictional characters with no real feelings. Better to insult them than other posters, right?

You know that for most people insulting character = insulting people who likes him/her lol
I'm passionate and protective of my favorites too xD

[Atlanta96]

You know that for most people insulting character = insulting people who likes him/her lol
I'm passionate and protective of my favorites too xD

I see people insult my favorites almost every day and I don't take it as a personal insult. It's not that hard to separate hatred of a character from a personal attack.