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  1. #2581
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    Does this count as controversial?

    Selina Kyle should have had the Falcone parentage confirmed in Batman Eternal instead of having the Calabrese family created as an alternative. The Calabreses didn’t really add anything, and the Falcones would have offered more interesting and perhaps more long lasting opportunities, simply each see they were more established and were more clearly placed as Batman’s early enemies.
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  2. #2582
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean with Damian at first being an elsewhere character. Should Kelly be canon?

  3. #2583
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean with Damian at first being an elsewhere character. Should Kelly be canon?
    Miller refuses to let her be used in the main comics which was why Tomasi had to abandon her intro

  4. #2584
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    There is difference between giving a villain depth and letting them off the hook for their crimes. A villain can be very entertaining and complex and still be a piece of crap that shouldn't have excuses made for them. Often times we have villains becoming heroes and heroes becoming villains, and heroes fighting each other non stop, rinse, repeat. That's pretty tedious and boring and played out when done wrong as well.

    I don't have an issue caring about most of Morrison's stories, nor do I see a lack of depth in his Talia in her own context even ignoring other runs. Just because she's not a good person doesn't mean she isn't complex. Plus it was new and at least she picked a direction, do we really want to keep reading about her being torn between her father and Batman for the billionth time?
    I certainly don't which was why I found Morrison's Talia refreshing in Inc

  5. #2585
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Does this count as controversial?

    Selina Kyle should have had the Falcone parentage confirmed in Batman Eternal instead of having the Calabrese family created as an alternative. The Calabreses didn’t really add anything, and the Falcones would have offered more interesting and perhaps more long lasting opportunities, simply each see they were more established and were more clearly placed as Batman’s early enemies.
    Not for me coz her mafia heritage, whether Calabrese or Falcone, doesn't really matter in the long run. They only use the Calabrese connection in that one arc and then they're gone, and the remains of The Falcones are just background characters now.

  6. #2586
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I certainly don't which was why I found Morrison's Talia refreshing in Inc
    So now she's just a completely character and everything people used to like her for is gone. Great. Good job Morrison.

    I also wouldn't call turning another female asian dc character into the asian babymama trope refreshing. Actually I think was pretty racist of Morrison to do it.
    Last edited by Astralabius; 05-29-2020 at 09:48 PM.

  7. #2587
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    So now she's just a completely character and everything people used to like her for is gone. Great. Good job Morrison.

    I also wouldn't call turning another female asian dc character into the asian babymama trope refreshing. Actually I think was pretty racist of Morrison to do it.
    Wasn't she a baby mama before Morrison?

    Talia was introduced as a stereotype. She is Asian/Arabic who is under her father's control. Used as an exotic pawn to further his agenda and a terrorist.
    She had no agency and wasn't her own person a lot of the time.

  8. #2588
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    Talia was boring before Morrison. If she was your role model, you need a reality check. Morrison elevated Talia to the level of Ra's. She was given more power, agency and complexity she wouldn't have.

  9. #2589
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwazer07 View Post
    Talia was boring before Morrison. If she was your role model, you need a reality check. Morrison elevated Talia to the level of Ra's. She was given more power, agency and complexity she wouldn't have.
    Anyone who has a fictional character as a role model needs a reality check.

  10. #2590
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    So now she's just a completely character and everything people used to like her for is gone. Great. Good job Morrison.

    I also wouldn't call turning another female asian dc character into the asian babymama trope refreshing. Actually I think was pretty racist of Morrison to do it.
    For others who didn't find anything interesting about her before, it was interesting.

    I think a lot of things about the al Ghuls and the tropes they embody are questionable, the franchise might have been better with never inventing them at all. It doesn't help that they are far removed from Batman's regular setting and supporting cast/villains to the point where you could probably lift them out and not lose much.

  11. #2591
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Selina Kyle should have had the Falcone parentage confirmed in Batman Eternal instead of having the Calabrese family created as an alternative. The Calabreses didn’t really add anything, and the Falcones would have offered more interesting and perhaps more long lasting opportunities, simply each see they were more established and were more clearly placed as Batman’s early enemies.
    I think they should have never giver her this mafia connection, the Mafia thing is already covered by Huntress.

  12. #2592
    Fantastic Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I think they should have never giver her this mafia connection, the Mafia thing is already covered by Huntress.
    I can add only this mafia connection doesn't add nothing to Catwoman.

  13. #2593
    Spectacular Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    Anyone who has a fictional character as a role model needs a reality check.
    Fictional characters can still be inspiring, at it's best that's what fiction does.
    I grew up in a backwards conservative rural area, where racism, sexism, homophobia etc was taken for granted. I credit books, and comic books, for showing me a more diverse world, with better values.

  14. #2594
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    I can add only this mafia connection doesn't add nothing to Catwoman.
    Honestly... does Selina Kyle make sense as a professional thief without connections to organized crime?

  15. #2595
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Honestly... does Selina Kyle make sense as a professional thief without connections to organized crime?
    Yes. Could be something like a freelancer, having her own agenda, or something else.

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