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  1. #3331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So which one is it? Are modern superheroes too arrogant and obsessed with stardom or a bunch of wimps who let others walk over them?
    That's the problem, you have to be one or the other it seems. Bruce and most modern Superheroes are clearly the former and a small minority comprised of individuals like modern Superman sit in the later. That's why modern writers make coping stories like What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way.


    The heroes of old while they could be mean at least seem to care about people and had a good head on their shoulders. They were also more fun. B
    Last edited by The World; 11-26-2021 at 06:23 AM.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  2. #3332
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    That's the problem, you have to be one or the other it seems. Bruce and most modern Superheroes are clearly the former and a small minority comprised of individuals like modern Superman sit in the later. That's why modern writers make coping stories like What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way.


    The heroes of old while they could be mean at least seem to care about people and had a good head on their shoulders. They were also more fun. B
    I find your description of most superheroes today hyperbolic at best. And no, the heroes of old weren't any more concerned about people nor did they have their heads anymore screwed on straight than their modern counterparts. In the case of the latter, the primary defense today is that writers are more likely to acknowledge when a hero is anything but.

    And while I dislike nonsense like What's So Funny..., that story's issue isn't Superman being concerned with his image. If anything he has the opposite problem of not even considering other people's opinion of him and the story demonizes his primary critics.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 11-26-2021 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #3333
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Jesus Christ. The Boys really wasn't that much of an exaggeration of modern superheroes. A bunch of rich, superpowered, or rich and superpowered ego maniacal, sociopaths more concerned with their pride or stardom than helping anyone. Modern Bruce is probably one sexual harrasment suit away from being every slimy CEO on tv, he's not the little guy and he never has been, just a convenient idol for readers to project their insecurities onto.

    The sooner Superman give Bruce the Omni-Man treatment the sooner everyone can get over themselves about the power gap between them.
    A lot of the Batman/Superman dynamic is an obsession in the "mortal vs god" dynamic... and completely misses the entire point behind being a hero. Unfortunately that taints the entire DC Universe because of the Bat-god nonsense putting Batman in almost everything..

  4. #3334
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    I like the idea of keeping Red Hood's death as sort of a major part of his character. I'm not exactly sure on how I want that to happen, but I do want it to keep coming up somehow semi-regularly.

  5. #3335
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    The best Alfred is the Batman: Earth One version.

  6. #3336
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I like the idea of keeping Red Hood's death as sort of a major part of his character. I'm not exactly sure on how I want that to happen, but I do want it to keep coming up somehow semi-regularly.
    Have him use a crow bar as his weapon of choice.

    Have him take Dick's advice and dress as a crowbar.

    Have him remind everyone that was killed frequently.

    Give him a Zombie themed series.

    change his alias to The Crowbar and have a narration box that reminds readers that he choose the the name because he was killed by the Joker with a Crowbar [this also works with his current alias]

  7. #3337
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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    Dick Grayson sees Bruce Wayne more as an older brother than a father. Even though they have a complex relationship that has bits of father/son dynamic he should never call him dad. With the other robins it's different.

  8. #3338
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    There's no reason Barbara can't suit up and us the name Oracle if she's not paralyzed.

  9. #3339
    Mighty Member Lady Nightwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I like the idea of keeping Red Hood's death as sort of a major part of his character. I'm not exactly sure on how I want that to happen, but I do want it to keep coming up somehow semi-regularly.
    There was a time Jason's death really meant something, unfortunately seeing as everyone and their mother has died and come back in recent years, it has really undercut the importance and tragedy of Jason's murder. It also makes him look like a whingy baby when he keeps harping on about it, imo at least, which is actually absurd when you think about .

  10. #3340
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    There was a time Jason's death really meant something, unfortunately seeing as everyone and their mother has died and come back in recent years, it has really undercut the importance and tragedy of Jason's murder. It also makes him look like a whingy baby when he keeps harping on about it, imo at least, which is actually absurd when you think about .
    To be fair, most others didn't have to dig out of their grave, get hit by a car, be a Jon Doe for a time, wander the streets as a walking vegetable, and then get tossed into the Lazarus Pit when they came back.

    And yes, that is back in continuity for Jason. So his actual resurrection is still a mystery (my personal head canon is that Death of the Endless brought him back to life, after having a cup of tea with him).

  11. #3341
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    To be fair, most others didn't have to dig out of their grave, get hit by a car, be a Jon Doe for a time, wander the streets as a walking vegetable, and then get tossed into the Lazarus Pit when they came back.

    And yes, that is back in continuity for Jason. So his actual resurrection is still a mystery (my personal head canon is that Death of the Endless brought him back to life, after having a cup of tea with him).
    The thing is @LadyNightwing does have a point.

    Jason's ordeal does lose a lot of it's impact when you in the same family a kid who was killed and sent to hell to suffer till he was resurrected [batman and Robin by Tomasi]

    Writers keep upping the stakes and shock element to the point where they undercut previous lore.

    I'm not a fan of Jason referencing his death frequently/writers keeping him from moving away from it.

  12. #3342
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    The thing is @LadyNightwing does have a point.

    Jason's ordeal does lose a lot of it's impact when you in the same family a kid who was killed and sent to hell to suffer till he was resurrected [batman and Robin by Tomasi]

    Writers keep upping the stakes and shock element to the point where they undercut previous lore.

    I'm not a fan of Jason referencing his death frequently/writers keeping him from moving away from it.
    Damian being able to remember his time and experiences in hell is pretty f&*ked up.

  13. #3343
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    There was a time Jason's death really meant something, unfortunately seeing as everyone and their mother has died and come back in recent years, it has really undercut the importance and tragedy of Jason's murder. It also makes him look like a whingy baby when he keeps harping on about it, imo at least, which is actually absurd when you think about .
    Agreed.

    I really enjoyed Jason as the Cautionary tale of what could happen to a crime fighting kid. Or anyone for that matter. That specter of mortality had a purpose. Even if he was the ONLY character to actually stay dead, I wish he would have.

    OR become the villain. I prefer him dead, but the original story where he came back and used Batman's training against him. Becoming the killer taking over the mob. Unable to arrested because he's too closely connected to the Bruce Wayne identity... It wasn't as good as him being dead, but it had serious potential. He could have become the #1 archenemy. Would have been extra awesome if he'd Killed Joker on principle and took his place as best enemy. Certainly had more motive than Bane ever did....

    But making him 'good-ish' and bringing him back into the family as Robin #2 of 4 is just a waste.

  14. #3344
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    Jason was subjected to victim blaming.

  15. #3345
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Nightwing View Post
    There was a time Jason's death really meant something
    I would argue that it still means something because it’s a factor in him becoming Red Hood.

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