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  1. #1666
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Bruce and Dick's dynamic is more older brother/younger brother than father/son and the shift in writing to the latter is weird. Bruce is at most a little over a decade older than Dick, they should be more like best buds (with Clark being his other one). It's why the casting in live action Titans is so weird, the age difference is nowhere near that big.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Bruce is only interesting as a older Bruce Wayne.

    Seeing him in Dark Knight Returns or Batman Beyond is far more interesting then his current characterization simply because as a reader I want to know how did things go so wrong.

    Fans may always him to be the brooding grimdark hero, but in Batman Beyond he is the exemplar of a man who has lost all semblance of emotional intelligence and would have been forever alone if not for Terry. Bruce from DKR is the same and he was looking for a "out" trying to constantly push himself.

    Bruce as a young man is only interesting because I have hope that he will escape the trauma and when he stubbornly stays the same he becomes boring.

    This is why New 52 Batman & Robin is so good, Bruce was basically happy and you can imagine him stopping all of the shenanigans and being a father to his son(s).
    He used to be pretty laid back and at peace with himself and his life before Frank Miller, when he was younger.
    I miss that dude. He was so much better than what we've got now.

  2. #1667
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I would like to see Kate and Bruce interact more, either with or without the costumes. Not saying a constant team-up, but making it happen a little more often than crises that require most of the city's vigilantes to begin with. They are cousins, each took their own path after tragic childhood traumas (a running theme for most Bats it seems), and both ended up as vigilantes.
    My controversial opinion is that I like Kate as re-imagining of Kathy (so both should not exist), and as a version of such that is not Bruce's cousin. Ship has sailed, though.

  3. #1668
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    My controversial opinion is that I like Kate as re-imagining of Kathy (so both should not exist), and as a version of such that is not Bruce's cousin. Ship has sailed, though.
    I like what Morrison did with Kathy Kane a lot, but yeah. As originally intended by Rucka, Kate seemed to be the first and only Batwoman, a modernization of Kathy, and wasn't part of Bruce's extended family.

    Establishing Martha as one of those Kanes and having Bruce date his aunt was also really weird.

  4. #1669
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Bruce and Dick's dynamic is more older brother/younger brother than father/son and the shift in writing to the latter is weird. Bruce is at most a little over a decade older than Dick, they should be more like best buds (with Clark being his other one). It's why the casting in live action Titans is so weird, the age difference is nowhere near that big.



    He used to be pretty laid back and at peace with himself and his life before Frank Miller, when he was younger.
    I miss that dude. He was so much better than what we've got now.
    The casting is weird in Titans is because they wanted Iain Glenn. Love the actor, we even share the same name but it was a bad choice. I don't really see how that reflects the father/son or brothers dynamic.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  5. #1670
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    The casting is weird in Titans is because they wanted Iain Glenn. Love the actor, we even share the same name but it was a bad choice. I don't really see how that reflects the father/son or brothers dynamic.
    IDK, I don't watch the show, just the idea isn't appealing.
    I think it reflects the father/son shift we see in general in making Bruce "Bat-Dad" because he is clearly way older. There is no way they are close to being peers age wise, which is what I prefer for Bruce and Dick.

  6. #1671
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Even weirder- making him Bat-Dad to Nightwing ages him up more than Bat-Bro, which is the scary thing that Didio hates
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  7. #1672
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Even weirder- making him Bat-Dad to Nightwing ages him up more than Bat-Bro, which is the scary thing that Didio hates
    I know, right?
    At one point pre-Crisis I believe it was stated that Dick became Nightwing at 19-20 and Bruce was around 29, that's nowhere near old enough for the latter to be "father figure" material. So Didio's weird hang up with Dick's generation making Bruce's look old makes no sense. If anything, the next two down do that.

  8. #1673
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Even weirder- making him Bat-Dad to Nightwing ages him up more than Bat-Bro, which is the scary thing that Didio hates
    I don't think DiDio has has much say in things outside of comics. That's more Geoff Johns (thankfully).

  9. #1674
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I would like to see Kate and Bruce interact more, either with or without the costumes. Not saying a constant team-up, but making it happen a little more often than crises that require most of the city's vigilantes to begin with. They are cousins, each took their own path after tragic childhood traumas (a running theme for most Bats it seems), and both ended up as vigilantes.
    I think many people would like to see that. We got some of that in Tec for a while, but more would be nice, and without all the teenagers. I think they would step on each others toes somewhat, which could be fun to see, since they are both kinda control-freaks.

    Be more fun that they team-up occasionally (or just socialise) than writers keep pitting them against each other for the dramas: Batwoman first solo, Tec 'Batmen' run, near end of second Batwoman solo - quit making them fight all the time, it's getting old.

  10. #1675
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I like what Morrison did with Kathy Kane a lot, but yeah. As originally intended by Rucka, Kate seemed to be the first and only Batwoman, a modernization of Kathy, and wasn't part of Bruce's extended family.

    Establishing Martha as one of those Kanes and having Bruce date his aunt was also really weird.
    I thought Morrison's idea of Kathy was later transmogrified in Grayson to be Luka Netz?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  11. #1676
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I thought Morrison's idea of Kathy was later transmogrified in Grayson to be Luka Netz?
    Transmogrify it back or have her be a third daughter since they might as well be different characters

  12. #1677
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I know, right?
    At one point pre-Crisis I believe it was stated that Dick became Nightwing at 19-20 and Bruce was around 29, that's nowhere near old enough for the latter to be "father figure" material. So Didio's weird hang up with Dick's generation making Bruce's look old makes no sense. If anything, the next two down do that.
    The semi exact words he said was Nightwing fans like Dick to keep growing so he doesn't want him to get older than Batman. It wasn't even about father figure or making Bruce old, it's about making Dick older than Bruce.

    I don't know if he believes that literally, which doesn't make sense since that's not gonna happen, or he meant in maturity, which already happened but subtle and not often enough people can miss it, or he's talking about character evolution, which makes sense since he likes things tight and neat in its place, heroes are heroes, sidekicks are sidekicks, but he said the wrong word.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-16-2019 at 12:46 AM.

  13. #1678
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Brothers can be looked at as father figures too. Bruce and Dick’s relationship is multifaceted and complex. It wears many hats. Big brother/little brother, father/son, teacher/students, hero/rescuee, partners, friends, etc. They are more to each other then just one thing. That’s why it’s such a lovely relationship. Or at least that’s how I see it.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-16-2019 at 03:26 AM.

  14. #1679
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    Batman Begins is the best of the Nolan trilogy.

  15. #1680
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    Here’s another opinion I doubt you all will agree with:

    It’s time to get rid of Joker. Change the whole status quo. Kill him or put him in a coma for several years, just keep him ‘off canvas’. But let it make either Harley or the new version of Joker’s Daughter go for revenge and take over his mantle - costume and all. Let this new female Joker add a very twisted sexual tension to the whole story.

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