Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[phantom1592]

If Alfred didn't come on to the scene until after Bruce became Batman, then he couldn't have acted in the "father role" in terms of raising young Bruce as a boy.

HOWEVER, he doesn't have to be "some emotionally distant butler" either because shortly after entering the lives of Bruce and Dick, he stumbled upon their secret identities and thus became a helper in their battle against crime.

My favorite version of Alfred

[Jackalope89]

My favorite version of Alfred

What's more, that Batman wasn't a vigilante, but actually was deputized.

[MajorHoy]

What's more, that Batman wasn't a vigilante, but actually was deputized.

I think 1950s/1960s Batman in the comic books was more along those lines as well.

[phantom1592]

I think 1950s/1960s Batman in the comic books was more along those lines as well.

I've long said that Adam West was the most Comic Accurate Batman ever.

Whether we're talking about colorful goofy campy comic books of the 50's-60's..... Or we're talking about the all powerful Bat-God who can beat anyone, anytime with preperation that defies reality. He was prepared for any situation. Seriously... The guy had Shark Repellant... in an Aerosol can... on a HELICOPTER.

Superman would be no problem for THAT Batman

[Jackalope89]

I've long said that Adam West was the most Comic Accurate Batman ever.

Whether we're talking about colorful goofy campy comic books of the 50's-60's..... Or we're talking about the all powerful Bat-God who can beat anyone, anytime with preperation that defies reality. He was prepared for any situation. Seriously... The guy had Shark Repellant... in an Aerosol can... on a HELICOPTER.

Superman would be no problem for THAT Batman

Except that Batman would be good friends with Superman, and it would make far more sense than the more sociopathic one we get in modern times.

[marhawkman]

Except that Batman would be good friends with Superman, and it would make far more sense than the more sociopathic one we get in modern times.

Well, yes, there is that old saying about the "best way to defeat an enemy"... yeah the twist is that you convince them to help you. So... the Adam West Batman defeated Superman before meeting him.

[JediBatman54]

The Dark Knight Trilogy is not realistic Joker the movie is more
my dream movie is a DC Black Label/Vertigo Batman movie

[Restingvoice]

The Dark Knight Trilogy is not realistic Joker the movie is more
my dream movie is a DC Black Label/Vertigo Batman movie

It was said to be realistic because at that time the only point of comparison is Burton and Schumacher's Batman (and their point of comparison was Batman 66)

[Aahz]

Making Duke the by far least experienced member of the Batfamily, the only member that is allowed to fight crime by day, especially during a time when the police is trying to hunt down the Batfamily makes no sense.

[Tzigone]

Yeah, I'm going to need you to give some context here. Like what, you're saying he's only good as some emotionally distant butler?

He was never "emotionally distant" - he was Bruce and Dick's friend. He was a member of the family, pretty quickly. But he wasn't the parent. Bruce didn't have that emotionally-unhealthy dependence on him. He didn't have the unhealthy devotion to Bruce. Bruce was emotionally healthy. Bruce took on the role of raising a (to be fair, fairly grown) child, without expectation of Alfred doing the heavy lifting (far less selfish), and did a good job of it and related well to Dick. Alfred had an independent relationship with Dick (whereas now, Alfred's relationships with the "kids" are far to often to subordinate to his relationship with Bruce, and he will even sacrifice their emotional well-being to Bruce's emotional needs, as with the amnesia and how he was with Damian, etc.). And Dick, not Alfred, was the closest person to Bruce back then. He's lost a lot, and as a fan of old-school Dick Grayson, I don't really care for that. A shifting as he grew and others took precendence in each other's lives would be totally natural (and I'd say was, in the early 1980s, though I found it forced in the early 70s), but he's been retconned to having always been second-tier (along with losing maturity, skills, respect of his peers, etc., but those have nothing do with Alfred).

But my primary issue is how emotionally unhealthy Bruce has become. And time-correlated with Alfred as the parent, even if not caused by that. But when you put in a narrative context, it's a bad look for Alfred. And, even worse, I find their interpersonal dynamic to be unhealthy. With Alfred's life solely devoted to Bruce (made worse by his neglect of his own daughter). Bad enough in a parent, worse in someone still in a servant/employee role.

I also didn't mind Bruce having relatives (Aunt Agatha, Uncle Silas, cousin Jane) that he got along, loved even. That losing his parents hurt, of course, but it motivated him, not consumed him. That he grieved, but his life was not forever-dark afterwards.

[Gaius]

Dick Grayson should have died in Infinite Crisis.

[Alan2099]

He was never "emotionally distant" - he was Bruce and Dick's friend. He was a member of the family, pretty quickly. But he wasn't the parent. Bruce didn't have that emotionally-unhealthy dependence on him. He didn't have the unhealthy devotion to Bruce. Bruce was emotionally healthy. Bruce took on the role of raising a (to be fair, fairly grown) child, without expectation of Alfred doing the heavy lifting (far less selfish), and did a good job of it and related well to Dick. Alfred had an independent relationship with Dick (whereas now, Alfred's relationships with the "kids" are far to often to subordinate to his relationship with Bruce, and he will even sacrifice their emotional well-being to Bruce's emotional needs, as with the amnesia and how he was with Damian, etc.). And Dick, not Alfred, was the closest person to Bruce back then. He's lost a lot, and as a fan of old-school Dick Grayson, I don't really care for that. A shifting as he grew and others took precendence in each other's lives would be totally natural (and I'd say was, in the early 1980s, though I found it forced in the early 70s), but he's been retconned to having always been second-tier (along with losing maturity, skills, respect of his peers, etc., but those have nothing do with Alfred).

But my primary issue is how emotionally unhealthy Bruce has become. And time-correlated with Alfred as the parent, even if not caused by that. But when you put in a narrative context, it's a bad look for Alfred. And, even worse, I find their interpersonal dynamic to be unhealthy. With Alfred's life solely devoted to Bruce (made worse by his neglect of his own daughter). Bad enough in a parent, worse in someone still in a servant/employee role.

I also didn't mind Bruce having relatives (Aunt Agatha, Uncle Silas, cousin Jane) that he got along, loved even. That losing his parents hurt, of course, but it motivated him, not consumed him. That he grieved, but his life was not forever-dark afterwards.

I too miss when Batman was a functional human being capable of actually showing emotion, or at least emotions other than sadness and anger.

They keep piling dark on top of dark and removing the lighter elements of Batman and it makes for a weaker less interesting mythos not to mention a totally worse main character.

[marhawkman]

I too miss when Batman was a functional human being capable of actually showing emotion, or at least emotions other than sadness and anger.

They keep piling dark on top of dark and removing the lighter elements of Batman and it makes for a weaker less interesting mythos not to mention a totally worse main character.

Best example was Bat-Blackrock! Superman actually talks Blackrock into leaving Batman as a host by talking to Blackrock about how deranged Batman is! The hilarious part? Blackrock was reading Batman's mind the whole time and verifying everything Superman said was true.

[Pohzee]

Dick Grayson should have died in Infinite Crisis.

If we were to base it solely on his runs as Nightwing and with the Titans, I'd have a hard time disagreeing with you there. They don't really seem to know where to take the character that isn't Batman-lite, even Robin-lite. But his stints and Batman and Agent of Spyral were fantasic, and demonstrate the potential he has that makes him worth keeping around IMO.

[The True Detective]

I too miss when Batman was a functional human being capable of actually showing emotion, or at least emotions other than sadness and anger.

They keep piling dark on top of dark and removing the lighter elements of Batman and it makes for a weaker less interesting mythos not to mention a totally worse main character.

My controversial opinion is Bruce's darkness and supposed lack of emotion are greatly exaggerated, it's almost like if a character isn't walking around quipping with a Joker-like permagrin on their face 24/7 it's "why don't they lighten up?"

Not acting like a 90s Jim Carrey comedy character doesn't mean you're a suicidal mope.