Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Tzigone]

I usually don't complain about names, I'm even a fan of The Signal which a lot of people hate but Orphan is a terrible name. Cass deserves better, it sounds like a one off villain.

When I first heard the name, I very much associated it with her now not being Bruce's adopted child anymore. But I thought it meant that of course she'd be restored to her place as daughter super-quickly and the name would go away. That the whole point was THAT it was inaccurate in the meta-sense and all would be righted. Nope.

I'm okay with Bruce retiring. Not so much with Dick or any of the Robins taking his place. Let them find their own paths. I'd personally be okay if Batman began and ended with Bruce. But Batman Beyond has made me really like Terry in the role

I definitely want them in their own places. For the idea that, in-unverse, their own names will rise as high as Batman (though it probably won't happen in the real world). I can't get behind Batman Beyond. I liked the cartoon at first. I liked Terry. But then it just went downhill (but then I already though when the show changed from B:TAS, it went bad for me). The Bruce/Barbara. The "Batman's attic." But worst of all was making Terry Bruce's bio kid. Both the adopted kids were unfit for the job, unworthy, but bio kid is the proper successor, the one who can succeed where they failed and measure up where they couldn't. Doesn't work for me.


Haven't read BB comic.

[Jackalope89]

When I first heard the name, I very much associated it with her now not being Bruce's adopted child anymore. But I thought it meant that of course she'd be restored to her place as daughter super-quickly and the name would go away. That the whole point was THAT it was inaccurate in the meta-sense and all would be righted. Nope.

I definitely want them in their own places. For the idea that, in-unverse, their own names will rise as high as Batman (though it probably won't happen in the real world). I can't get behind Batman Beyond. I liked the cartoon at first. I liked Terry. But then it just went downhill (but then I already though when the show changed from B:TAS, it went bad for me). The Bruce/Barbara. The "Batman's attic." But worst of all was making Terry Bruce's bio kid. Both the adopted kids were unfit for the job, unworthy, but bio kid is the proper successor, the one who can succeed where they failed and measure up where they couldn't. Doesn't work for me.


Haven't read BB comic.

Batman Beyond Comic doesn't have the BrucexBabs and as far as I know, Terry is not Bruce's bio kid.

[AmiMizuno]

He is Bruce’s biology child. Also there is a cannon comic that confirms Bruce and Babs was a thing


Terry being Bruce’s son

https://youtu.be/XFMOgIIv0Fs

[Aahz]

He is Bruce’s biology child. Also there is a cannon comic that confirms Bruce and Babs was a thing


Terry being Bruce’s son

https://youtu.be/XFMOgIIv0Fs

Those comics were set in the DCAU-Continuity while the current Batman Beyond Comic is set in an possible future of the cuurent comics continuity.
Thats why Damian and Jason were Robin in the current Batman Beyond Comics (even if the they don't exist in the DCAU) and Joker was also still alive (which means that the events we sow in Return of the Joker also didn't happen).

[phantom1592]

When I first heard the name, I very much associated it with her now not being Bruce's adopted child anymore. But I thought it meant that of course she'd be restored to her place as daughter super-quickly and the name would go away. That the whole point was THAT it was inaccurate in the meta-sense and all would be righted. Nope..

I'm a bit out of the loop... but last i heard both Shiva and Caine were still alive.... making her the ONLY major bat-family member who is NOT an orphan.... Ughhh...

I definitely want them in their own places. For the idea that, in-unverse, their own names will rise as high as Batman (though it probably won't happen in the real world). I can't get behind Batman Beyond. I liked the cartoon at first. I liked Terry. But then it just went downhill (but then I already though when the show changed from B:TAS, it went bad for me). The Bruce/Barbara. The "Batman's attic." But worst of all was making Terry Bruce's bio kid. Both the adopted kids were unfit for the job, unworthy, but bio kid is the proper successor, the one who can succeed where they failed and measure up where they couldn't. Doesn't work for me.
.

Yeah, I'll never be able to see terry as 'Batman'. He was a fun character and I enjoyed the early episodes a lot... but he always had more of a Robin or Nightwing feel than a 'one true Batman'. Like he was trying to earn the mantle... instead of BEING the mantle if that makes sense. Fun show, but Batman=Bruce Wayne.

[Restingvoice]

I usually don't complain about names, I'm even a fan of The Signal which a lot of people hate but Orphan is a terrible name. Cass deserves better, it sounds like a one off villain.

It was a one-off villain XD

I'm a bit out of the loop... but last i heard both Shiva and Caine were still alive.... making her the ONLY major bat-family member who is NOT an orphan.... Ughhh...

Cain died saving Cass or something like that, so she took his name Orphan in memoriam. I think David did apologize for his treatment of her but it's been a while since I read Eternal. At that time she didn't know about Shiva. Not like she wants her as mother once she found out...

[Dazai_Osamu]

I'm sorry, but as a fan of both Cassandra and Tim, I have to disagree.

What they need to do is throw out that ri-goddamn-diculous 5 year time line. It was arbitrary, only sporadically enforced, and in the case of the Bat family, made no damn sense. It meant that Bruce had FOUR different Robins in 5 years, and then none of their ages made sense.

Both Tim and Cass can be great characters, and their old books showed this. But what was done to their characters in the New 52 (ESPECIALLY Tim) was beyond reprehensible, and should either be retconned back out of existence, or completely ignored.

I tend to ignore all New 52, that wasn't Tim, it was another character with his name, and Cass was ignored what 4 years in New 52!!! How DC ruined 2 great characters.

[Robanker]

Also there is a cannon comic that confirms Bruce and Babs was a thing

NOPE.

That's only ever been alternate futures or DCAU stuff. If it ever crept up in mainline continuity I would reach Flat-Earther levels of denial and just NOPE that right out of any mental continuity I have until DC regains their sense. Bruce/Babs is all kinds of wrong.

[Gotham citizen]

I think the attraction between Bruce and Barbara is one of the most disturbing idea saw in Batman: if Barbara has the same age of Dick, then Bruce could be her father!
Even when I saw the TV show with Adam West, I felt it was a deeply wrong thing; in fact if I remember well I stopped to seeing the show just because they hinted there could be something between them.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce/Babs could only have maybe worked in pre-Crisis where she was closer to his age than Dick's, and he wasn't an *******.

Timm making the choice to do it after it was established that Babs was the same age as Dick (if not a year or two younger? she's still in college after he graduates) was weird and gross.

[mathew101281]

[John Venus]

As per her hospital profile in Sub-Zero, Barbara was 20 year old in Batman: The Animated Series and with TNBA roughly taking place 3 years after B:TAS thus making her 23 whereas Bruce was somewhere in his 30's in all the 'present day' shows, not accounting for the flashbacks in MoTP or futuristic shows like Batman Beyond.

I mean, yes, it's still 'icky' but discussion about this pairing are starting to reach hyperbolic levels both here and elsewhere, at least from my pov.

I think Kyle Higgins handled it in the worst, most soap operatic way possible when he wrote that Batman Beyond issue and it didn't help with the pairing being brought back up in the prologue to the Killing Joke.

Looking back purely on the facts; we first learn that Bruce and Barbara dated in Batman Beyond. We don't know the details but Barbara is smiling as she reminisces about it. I can't imagine anybody smiling if a relationship involved cheating, miscarriage and broken another relationship unless that person is a psychopath. Barbara was established as having a crush on Bruce Wayne in B:TAS (which is something true to her original introductory comics). In TNBA, Barbara was Batman's most frequent and reliable partner; his relationship with Dick was on the rocks while Tim was still in training and no longer a viable partner after the Joker thing. Even on TNBA, Barbara and Dick weren't dating or in a relationship even though there was some tension. In Mystery of the Batwoman, Barbara attempts to breach the topic of a relationship and Bruce comically cuts her off. Putting the established pieces within the DCAU together to say that two people who often worked together in a high pressure, life threatening situations, spent a few nights together. That the years of crime fighting were taking a toll on Bruce to the point where at some point he reciprocated her crush but then broke it off later on.

I also don't think Timm and other creators intended for the relationship to be something you rooted. They said they did it partly because it would be controversial but it's never explored within the shows and then a less talented writer decided to explore it in the worst way possible. All of Bruce's relationships in the shows had some kind of meaning; Zatanna was the teenage friend, Andrea was the one who broke his heart, Selina and Talia were different shades of temptations that would have caused Bruce to compromise his code and Barbara was the relationship that never should have been and meant to expose his flaws, the chinks in his armor. By the time WW came around, he was too far gone to commit to a relationship.

[John Venus]

Bruce/Babs could only have maybe worked in pre-Crisis where she was closer to his age than Dick's, and he wasn't an *******.

Timm making the choice to do it after it was established that Babs was the same age as Dick (if not a year or two younger? she's still in college after he graduates) was weird and gross.

Timm/Dini/Burnett would have definitely grown up with the comics where Barbara was a fully grown adult woman and closer in age to Bruce. Though it was their decision to make both Dick and Babs college aged and bring down the age difference to a couple of years which the comic books, especially the ones under Chuck Dixon followed suit.

It wouldn't be the first time they went back and forth with characters. Look at Two Face, they wrote an incredible two part origin story for him but in eps like 'Almost Got 'Im', Shadow of the Bat and Sins of the Father, he's just your average two-bit (heh) villain, no different than any other gangster character.

[Agent Z]

Batman has had a far more negative impact on comics than Watchmen or even Rob Liefeld in some ways ever did.

[Restingvoice]

Batman has had a far more negative impact on comics than Watchmen or even Rob Liefeld in some ways ever did.

Clarification?