Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Sergard]

I think discussions like these ultimately come down to reader perspective vs character perspective. As readers we can look at BftC and BaR and see that Jason is acting in a way he wouldn't under another writer's pen, but the characters in the story don't have that type of foresight. They can only respond with what the writers give them to work with, and unfortunately with the way Jason was written in that era of batbooks, Dick kinda had his hands tied when it came to helping him.

Not trying to add fire to a discussion I can see is getting a little heated, just trying to give my viewpoint.

I also don't want to add fire to the discussion. I just want to add that it's not just the way Jason was written but also Dick. Morrison wrote a Dick who had his hands tied.
It still saddens me that Dick is one of the very few people who could have helped Jason. There are not many characters in the DC universe who knew Jason's story.
And Dick has connections. He could have asked the Justice League or the Titans for help in finding a place where Jason can't hurt others and where Jason doesn't get hurt.
A place where Jason's mental state/trauma could have been treated. Even sending Jason to the Phantom Zone would have been an act of mercy.

At the moment, I'm not even angry. I'm just sad.

[CPSparkles]

Jason's real dad and Grand mother were recently revealed to be alive and well I'm sure. Where were they during the time he came back and the time of his death?

Alfred I guess wasn't so close to Jason at the time when he came back I guess leading to him pushing Dick that it was his duty to take in and nurture Damian as well as taking on all of Bruce's responsibilities. It's hard being the eldest.

I'm just curious why they [all 3] remained silent and sat on their hands.

Also how did Bruce handle Jason? Did they try to get him help? I didn't read much of Jason's time before Batman died. I followed Tim's books and I recall Jason trying to kill him at the TT's tower and Jason trying to kill Bruce and of course there was the time he pretended to be Nightwing. The time he had tentacles.

My gosh that was a thing that happened Jason had tentacles.

[CPSparkles]

Independent Robin or other supporting cast work if they live someplace else, like Tim having his own home, parents, and school, or each of Robins if they stay in Titans Tower, but if they're supposed to live in Wayne Manor then they need to be in the story. At the very least they need to be mentioned, but some of these stories don't mention them at all

If it's been going on before New 52, then that just means the problem is bigger and older than I thought

Tim did live with his parents and had school. That was what made him special.

He was the one that showed that Robin can be independent. The 1st independent robin balancing his personal life with heroics.

Even after his was orphaned he maintained an apartment.

[kaimaciel]

Also how did Bruce handle Jason? Did they try to get him help? I didn't read much of Jason's time before Batman died. I followed Tim's books and I recall Jason trying to kill him at the TT's tower and Jason trying to kill Bruce and of course there was the time he pretended to be Nightwing. The time he had tentacles.

My gosh that was a thing that happened Jason had tentacles.

We don't talk about the tentacles. Never happened!

The thing I hate about the Pre New 52, and why Under Red Hood and Lost Days are the only Jason books I own from that time, was the way Jason was handled. They had no idea what to do with him: was a villain? An anti-hero? A psycho? A hero? All the above? He was handled very, very poorly, and after Dick became Batman, Jason was mostly used to be Dick's foil rather than his own character. Say what you want about the New 52, but I loved what they did to Jason, they gave him stability and, most importantly, sanity. Nowadays, I don't think I would be Jason fan if they kept him as his pre-New 52 psycho.

[Tzigone]

He was the one that showed that Robin can be independent. The 1st independent robin balancing his personal life with heroics.

Well, no. Dick did it first. But Tim was the first to be an independent Robin while still being a minor. I liked that about him. That he has his outside family/supporting cast and that his mentor wasn't his parent. Also a difference I liked between Wally and Dick/Roy/Garth in the old days that I thought was much diminished in post-COIE, where Wally's family sucked and now so many people have this concept that Iris and Barry were his "real" parents, even if he didn't live with them, and that's so very much not what it was like back them. He was the most independent young hero. Even moreso than Tim, as he operated in another city, almost never acted as sidekick and didn't even know the Flash's identity for a while.

[CPSparkles]

We don't talk about the tentacles. Never happened!

The thing I hate about the Pre New 52, and why Under Red Hood and Lost Days are the only Jason books I own from that time, was the way Jason was handled. They had no idea what to do with him: was a villain? An anti-hero? A psycho? A hero? All the above? He was handled very, very poorly, and after Dick became Batman, Jason was mostly used to be Dick's foil rather than his own character. Say what you want about the New 52, but I loved what they did to Jason, they gave him stability and, most importantly, sanity. Nowadays, I don't think I would be Jason fan if they kept him as his pre-New 52 psycho.

lol Gotcha.

[Zaresh]

lol Gotcha.

There is probably a story behind why Brothers in Blood was so awful and has to do with editor's meddling, if I'm not recalling wrong the once time I read that story somewhere. And then there's a reason why we don't talk about that, even when I'm pretty sure most of us secretly think it was hilarious.

We don't talk about Jason's tentacles! xddddd

[redmax99]

Jason's real dad and Grand mother were recently revealed to be alive and well I'm sure. Where were they during the time he came back and the time of his death?

Alfred I guess wasn't so close to Jason at the time when he came back I guess leading to him pushing Dick that it was his duty to take in and nurture Damian as well as taking on all of Bruce's responsibilities. It's hard being the eldest.

I'm just curious why they [all 3] remained silent and sat on their hands.

Also how did Bruce handle Jason? Did they try to get him help? I didn't read much of Jason's time before Batman died. I followed Tim's books and I recall Jason trying to kill him at the TT's tower and Jason trying to kill Bruce and of course there was the time he pretended to be Nightwing. The time he had tentacles.

My gosh that was a thing that happened Jason had tentacles.

bruce put his head in the sand, just like every other hero when it came to jason and cass,well every big hero.

[redmax99]

There is probably a story behind why Brothers in Blood was so awful and has to do with editor's meddling, if I'm not recalling wrong the once time I read that story somewhere. And then there's a reason why we don't talk about that, even when I'm pretty sure most of us secretly think it was hilarious.

We don't talk about Jason's tentacles! xddddd

wasn't editor meddling jason was to become nightwing in OYL when they killed dick but you know he didnt die. one writer still want to tell a jason and dick story so we got brother in blood instead.

[Tzigone]

Jason's real dad and Grand mother were recently revealed to be alive and well I'm sure. Where were they during the time he came back and the time of his death?

Dead and not his grandma. That's comic book continuity for you. It generally irritates when retcons make previous stories make no sense. Of course, we've rebooted the universe since then, and I at least find major retcons more palatable when they are different universes, because then they aren't even supposed to be compatible. I haven't actually read the New 52 version of Jason's death. I know that at one point Sheila was nixed and the Joker was annoyingly making plans for him back before he became Robin, but frankly, it's all a bit hazy.

[Zaresh]

wasn't editor meddling jason was to become nightwing in OYL when they killed dick but you know he didnt die. one writer still want to tell a jason and dick story so we got brother in blood instead.

Ah, right. It was that, yes. You're right.
But there was a story for it behind, regardless! (XD)

[kaimaciel]

Dead and not his grandma. That's comic book continuity for you. It generally irritates when retcons make previous stories make no sense. Of course, we've rebooted the universe since then, and I at least find major retcons more palatable when they are different universes, because then they aren't even supposed to be compatible. I haven't actually read the New 52 version of Jason's death. I know that at one point Sheila was nixed and the Joker was annoyingly making plans for him back before he became Robin, but frankly, it's all a bit hazy.

In the N52, Catherine was Jason's birth mother, there was no Sheila. Joker implied that he was behind Jason becoming Robin in the first place, that was retconned/disproven by Bruce after the Death of the Family arc as one of Joker's lies.

[Zaresh]

Dead and not his grandma. That's comic book continuity for you. It generally irritates when retcons make previous stories make no sense. Of course, we've rebooted the universe since then, and I at least find major retcons more palatable when they are different universes, because then they aren't even supposed to be compatible. I haven't actually read the New 52 version of Jason's death. I know that at one point Sheila was nixed and the Joker was annoyingly making plans for him back before he became Robin, but frankly, it's all a bit hazy.

I don't think either Faye or Willis were good enough or in a place good enough to give Jason some kind of support/help/whatever. They're very flawed individuals, not really good people. They're bad people, actually, even if they somehow care. And well, going by current cont, Faye should've been in jail by that time (Batman got her in Jason's post-crisis story), and I doubt Willis knew Red Hood was Jason before Batman Inc. happened (if he got Wingman's costume because of that).

I mean, if we want to justify they not being there for him. Retcons are messy.

[Tzigone]

In the N52, Catherine was Jason's birth mother, there was no Sheila. Joker implied that he was behind Jason becoming Robin in the first place, that was retconned/disproven by Bruce after the Death of the Family arc as one of Joker's lies.

Glad the puppet-master Joker is not/no longer canon.

[Sergard]

bruce put his head in the sand, just like every other hero when it came to jason and cass,well every big hero.

Plot twist: Bruce' grandfather was an ostrich.