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  1. #2776
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Poison Ivy is a terrible character to make be the stand-in/spokesperson for environmentalism amongst DC characters.
    DC has bunch of eco villains. Ra's, Oceanmaster come to my mind. But because they are actually doing something, people see that they are at least attempting to solve the problems (but with the wrong solutions and ultimately for their own gain) while characters who are supposed to be eco heroes like Swamp Thing, Aquaman basically dont contribute change.

    The enviromentalism aspect is supposed to make Ivy more of a sympathetic character but her enviromentalism is taken to the extreme without much regards to human lives.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 02-25-2021 at 05:06 PM.

  2. #2777
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    DC has bunch of eco villains. Ra's, Oceanmaster come to my mind. But because they are actually doing something, people see that they are at least attempting to solve the problems (but with the wrong solutions and for their own gain) while characters who are supposed to be eco heroes like Swamp Thing, Aquaman basically dont contribute change.
    When did they supposedly become eco-heroes, anyway? I have pitifully little experience of Swamp Thing, but certainly there was nothing eco about Arthur for a huge portion of his history. I know, of course, it showed up in Smallville, but I don't really recall it ever having been a "thing" in any of the Aquaman comics I've read. I certainly have skipped entire eras, though, don't get me wrong, so I don't doubt it was a thing at one time. I'm just saying I would not have classified him that way, therefore would not saying he's failing at what he's supposed to be anymore than The Flash is failing by not being an eco hero.

  3. #2778
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Poison Ivy is a terrible character to make be the stand-in/spokesperson for environmentalism amongst DC characters.
    It's the drawback of needing such a character, but she is by far the most popular and prolific so she gets the job.

    even if it doesn't 100% make the most sense from a character perspective.

  4. #2779
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    When did they supposedly become eco-heroes, anyway? I have pitifully little experience of Swamp Thing, but certainly there was nothing eco about Arthur for a huge portion of his history. I know, of course, it showed up in Smallville, but I don't really recall it ever having been a "thing" in any of the Aquaman comics I've read. I certainly have skipped entire eras, though, don't get me wrong, so I don't doubt it was a thing at one time. I'm just saying I would not have classified him that way, therefore would not saying he's failing at what he's supposed to be anymore than The Flash is failing by not being an eco hero.
    I think Post-Crisis Aquaman addressed surface pollution of the seas either directly or just him off-handedly complaining about it.

  5. #2780
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Joker should die.

    Cassandra Cain's a better Batgirl than Barbara

    Batman and Zatanna should be romantically linked.

    Batman should never have had a son.

  6. #2781
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Skeleton View Post
    Joker should die.
    How stupid DC would be to kill off their most profitable villain.

  7. #2782
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Skeleton View Post
    Joker should die.

    Cassandra Cain's a better Batgirl than Barbara

    Batman and Zatanna should be romantically linked.

    Batman should never have had a son.
    Would have to go the opposite on the Zatanna one. I'll also extend it to that Bat-writers need to stop making female characters created independent of Batman his arm candy/love interests. He has plenty enough on his own between Selina, Talia, Vikki Vale, Andrea, and the various other minor ones for writers to use.

  8. #2783
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Would have to go the opposite on the Zatanna one. I'll also extend it to that Bat-writers need to stop making female characters created independent of Batman his arm candy/love interests. He has plenty enough on his own between Selina, Talia, Vikki Vale, Andrea, and the various other minor ones for writers to use.
    I very strongly agree. Not that independently created heroes can't date, but it's always going to be very lopsided with Batman. Plus, I admit to having rather negative feelings about Batman/Zatanna due to DCAU, which I felt like had the "your girlfriend would rather be screwing Batman" vibe to some other male heroes with a "women want to be with him" thing in regards to the single women. Also I'm not really of fan of Zatanna going for the messed up guys, bad boys, or trying to pursue relationships that will never work out.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 02-27-2021 at 08:21 AM.

  9. #2784
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I very strongly agree. Not that independently created heroes can't date, but it's always going to be very lopsided with Batman. Plus, I admit to having rather negative feelings about Batman/Zatanna due to DCAU, which I felt like had the "your girlfriend would rather be screwing Batman" vibe to some other male heroes with a "women want to be with him" thing in regards to the single women. Also I'm not really of fan of Zatanna going for the messed up guys, bad boys, or trying to pursue relationships that will never work out.
    Yep, these romances are always lopsided in Bruce's favor where they go head-over-heels for him but he barely gives them the similar amount of attention. Speaks volumes the biggest legacy the DCAU had on the biggest female superhero of DC is making her go gaga for Bruce.

  10. #2785
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think Bruce and Zee are really cute together, so that's about it for me .

  11. #2786
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    I think Adeline Kane should be connected to the Kane Family, maybe Martha and Jacobs cousin, so her son Jericho have a family connection to the Bat Family and picturing her ex-husband Slade Wilson at a family reunion with Batman makes me laugh.

  12. #2787
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I very strongly agree. Not that independently created heroes can't date, but it's always going to be very lopsided with Batman. Plus, I admit to having rather negative feelings about Batman/Zatanna due to DCAU, which I felt like had the "your girlfriend would rather be screwing Batman" vibe to some other male heroes with a "women want to be with him" thing in regards to the single women. Also I'm not really of fan of Zatanna going for the messed up guys, bad boys, or trying to pursue relationships that will never work out.
    This made me think of something I"D like to see. In the Batman vs Dracula animated movie Dracula is planning to turn Vicki into his new queen of the undead... The idea is what if he succeeds? Could Batman get stuck with a vampire girlfriend? Mmm Vicki Vale... vampire journalist is also amusing.

  13. #2788
    Incredible Member witchboy's Avatar
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    The thing with trying to do a romance with Wonder Woman or Zatanna, is that beyond the odd guest appearance, it can't work just for logistic reasons. If the relationship gets serious then they're going to be in his books all the time, which they don't fit into the street level stories that most of Batman comics are about, and they realistically outpower him. There's no way he can be overshadowed in his own book.
    You could do a "Wonder Woman and Batman" book much like the Superman and Wonder Woman book, but it still should have too much impact in all his books.

  14. #2789
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    The thing with trying to do a romance with Wonder Woman or Zatanna, is that beyond the odd guest appearance, it can't work just for logistic reasons. If the relationship gets serious then they're going to be in his books all the time, which they don't fit into the street level stories that most of Batman comics are about, and they realistically outpower him. There's no way he can be overshadowed in his own book.
    You could do a "Wonder Woman and Batman" book much like the Superman and Wonder Woman book, but it still should have too much impact in all his books.
    Batman already has like his Bat & Tec books and then him being in team books with JL or with Supes. All these 4 books dont really correlate with each other much. Then you would have books that use Batman's name to draw more sales like Batman & the Outsiders, Batman & Catwoman, etc... In the end, what really matters are the 2 mainline books. Like for example, when writers from Harley books use Batman's characters, the potrayal of those characters in Harley books are not considered to be the cannon and the status of those characters cant be changed in Harley's books.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 02-28-2021 at 09:49 AM.

  15. #2790
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I always thought the Batman/Zatanna romance/fling was handled well, especially since Dini used it to add to both characters instead of taking something away from them. He used the relationship to establish that the Zatara's weren't just magicians but were talented in escape artistry and sleight-of-hand, enough so that even a young Bruce Wayne would be intrigued enough to learn from them. It established that Bruce trained with other classic characters in the DCU (outside of his own title) and later Ted Grant would be added to them. There was some attraction between the two but he turns her down and she moves on with no muss no fuss to her own ongoing where Batman is hardly mentioned and Bruce goes on to confess and later partner with Selina. I'm mixing up DCAU and Dini's 'Tec but they are very similar anyway. Overall, unlike Bruce/Lois and Bruce/WW which mostly served to prop up Batman, I always thought Bruce/Zee was handled in a mutually beneficial way. Now, if only we can keep writers from including mind wipes in their stories.

    I also like how Dini used the connection between Thomas and John Zatara to explore the corrupt upper class of Gotham and give us an impression of who Thomas Wayne was before he married Martha, making him flawed without villainizing him.

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