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  1. #2371
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I don't know how much time and involved they are it can be to others they are family. But I still rejected Bruce and Babs
    You won't find many people that disagree with you there. Its actually a rather popular opinion.

  2. #2372
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    There should be DCs top talent on a Robin title (don't care which sidekick actually, any Robin will do). Not all those minor league writers and artists. Just like the Dixon run from the 90s.

  3. #2373
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    You won't find many people that disagree with you there. Its actually a rather popular opinion.
    I find Bruce and Babs really cringe worthy.

  4. #2374
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Parker View Post
    I think The Batman (which aired from 2004 to 2008) is a more consistently enjoyable series overall than BTAS. It never quite reaches the heights of BTAS, but it also has really consistent quality and I prefer its takes on several villains, including Riddler, Catwoman, Penguin, Clayface, and Joker. The Penguin in BTAS is a really bland version, while The Batman's Penguin is a really fun, comedic take that is a pathetic loser. Mark Hamill is unmatchable, but the writing for the animated series Joker was inconsistent and the only great Joker centric episodes, IMO, are "Laughing Fish" and "Mad Love". The Batman, meanwhile, does a better job at having the Joker be both hilarious and genuinely creepy and disturbing (that design does a lot of the work) and almost every Joker episode is really good, with a few of them ("Strange Minds" and "The laughing Bat") being some of my favorite Joker stories in any medium.

    I also like that The Batman has more continuity and we really get to see Bruce Wayne grow and evolve. We see him go from a year one type Batman who had only fought regular criminals and mobsters into the traditional Batman from modern comics with a full fledged rogues gallery and several sidekicks. The anthology style of BTAs worked, but it prevented that kind of development in some ways.

    Plus, The Batman's version of Bruce Wayne cured Vampirism. That is all.
    Agreed, outside of more light-hearted takes on the character, The Batman is my preferred way to see Batman where he actually seems like a decent guy and isn't on dick-mode all the time around his supposed friends and allies like he was the later DCAU.

  5. #2375
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Agreed, outside of more light-hearted takes on the character, The Batman is my preferred way to see Batman where he actually seems like a decent guy and isn't on dick-mode all the time around his supposed friends and allies like he was the later DCAU.
    Yeah that show was enjoyable to watch. More so because I was happy to see the guest stars.

  6. #2376
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I find Bruce and Babs really cringe worthy.
    My point exactly. Most agree on that (myself included). Its actually a popular opinion to not like the BrucexBabs stuff.

  7. #2377
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    That’s the point even.

  8. #2378
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Marvel's Black Cat is the better Catwoman. I love the stories Brubaker did with Selina, maybe Dini's stuff but I don't remember it well, probably Morrison's and Loeb's Catwomen were also really good but overall Marvel wins with a much better costume, bad luck powers and charm.

  9. #2379
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Controversial opinion? Hmm, I have some weird opinion, don't know if it's controversial or not.

    1. Looking at Bruce's mental state lately, I think it's better for him to retire from Batman and just marry Selina or something.
    2. I hate when people call Cassandra 'former assassin'. Yes, she was raised by assassin to be the best assassin, but she literally only killed one person and after that she was consumed by guilt and ran away from her father. Assassin is someone who willingly kill people who has no relation with them without any emotion, just because they are ordered to (like Deathstroke, Deadshot, Damian before he met Batman, etc). On my opinion Cassandra is never an assassin, call her that is almost an insult to her.
    3. I love redhead Jason? And please bring back his red gun.
    4. I love Damian's "Terminus Agenda" protocol. For 13 almost 14 years old kid, that plan is really neat and as Deathstroke said, brilliant.
    5. (more like theory) the mysterious box on Teen Titans annual which Damian used to taunt Jason, contains Bruce's father's watch (the one we saw on robin anniversary comic). He left it to Alfred before he went to Joker (and dead), and after his resurrection and his relationship with Bruce went really sour, he can't bring himself to take it back from Alfred. Why do Damian know that? Perhaps because he also looked for that watch when he went to find Martha's pearl, but could not find it, and just think that maybe someone already found it first. I don't know, that's only my wild prediction.
    6. Batman works together with Harley is completely OOC on Batman's part. Really, why? She KILLS people. She's undisciplined. She's ruthless. Her former boyfriend is Batman's villain and her current girlfriend is also kinda Batman's villain.

    I think that's all.
    Last edited by Light of Justice; 04-18-2020 at 10:48 AM.

  10. #2380
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    Ace the Bathound was the only one of the Batman cast that died in Cataclysm.

  11. #2381

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    Screw Batgirl
    Babs is better as Oracle
    Steph is better as Spoiler
    Cass is just fine as Orphan

    It’s an overrated mantle, that it’s holders are all better than, and better without.

  12. #2382

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Parker View Post
    I think The Batman (which aired from 2004 to 2008) is a more consistently enjoyable series overall than BTAS. It never quite reaches the heights of BTAS, but it also has really consistent quality and I prefer its takes on several villains, including Riddler, Catwoman, Penguin, Clayface, and Joker. The Penguin in BTAS is a really bland version, while The Batman's Penguin is a really fun, comedic take that is a pathetic loser. Mark Hamill is unmatchable, but the writing for the animated series Joker was inconsistent and the only great Joker centric episodes, IMO, are "Laughing Fish" and "Mad Love". The Batman, meanwhile, does a better job at having the Joker be both hilarious and genuinely creepy and disturbing (that design does a lot of the work) and almost every Joker episode is really good, with a few of them ("Strange Minds" and "The laughing Bat") being some of my favorite Joker stories in any medium.

    I also like that The Batman has more continuity and we really get to see Bruce Wayne grow and evolve. We see him go from a year one type Batman who had only fought regular criminals and mobsters into the traditional Batman from modern comics with a full fledged rogues gallery and several sidekicks. The anthology style of BTAs worked, but it prevented that kind of development in some ways.

    Plus, The Batman's version of Bruce Wayne cured Vampirism. That is all.
    I agree with most of this. Especially the part about seeing Bruce grow from vigilante to full fledged JL member with a Rogues Gallery. I actually prefer the show's version of Firefly over his TNBA counterpart. Mark Hamill is still my favorite Joker out of all the mediums because of his laughter alone. I enjoyed 'The Batmans' take on the Joker just as much as I did B:TAS. I figured that if you are going to do a marital arts centric Batman show where even the Joker is a martial artist then, it makes sense for him to have a mad monkey fighting style, it plays to his character than detracting from him. I also like the fact that the show didn't hesitate to show Joker's cruelty given that he's responsible for Ethan Bennet's condition. There were genuinely great Joker episodes in the show like the one where he kidnapped Yin and Batman nearly goes insane by going into Joker's mind or the one where Joker dressed up as Batman while turning the real Batman into Joker.

    Speaking of Bennet, I enjoyed his arc from Bruce Wayne's friend and Batman supporter to tragic villain to full fledged villain and then finally redeeming himself at the end. Barbara was fun and I like that Poison Ivy was her arch nemesis in the show and the sibling relationship she had with Dick Grayson.

  13. #2383

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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Screw Batgirl
    Babs is better as Oracle
    Steph is better as Spoiler
    Cass is just fine as Orphan

    It’s an overrated mantle, that it’s holders are all better than, and better without.
    I can't say I disagree with this. Though I prefer Cass as Black Bat and from there you realize, she could have always just been Black Bat.

    I like Babs as Batgirl but it's pointless if she can't graduate to Oracle. Steph loses her uniqueness and becomes a Babs-lite as Batgirl.

  14. #2384
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I can't say I disagree with this. Though I prefer Cass as Black Bat and from there you realize, she could have always just been Black Bat.

    I like Babs as Batgirl but it's pointless if she can't graduate to Oracle. Steph loses her uniqueness and becomes a Babs-lite as Batgirl.
    The 3/4 Batgirls are a bit unique from the Robins in that 3 of them were created and introduced with a great deal of time between their heydays and the next one; Better had been out of continuity for years before Babas showed up, and Babs had been Oracle for years before Cass showed up. Only Steph picked up the mantle right after her predecessor, and she was deliberately made to contrast with Cass in the role, and had already established an identity for herself.

    Each one was thus a little bit more developed in a different way around the general concept of Batgirl, unlike the Robins, where all were intended to fill a usually familiar role.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  15. #2385
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The 3/4 Batgirls are a bit unique from the Robins in that 3 of them were created and introduced with a great deal of time between their heydays and the next one; Better had been out of continuity for years before Babas showed up, and Babs had been Oracle for years before Cass showed up. Only Steph picked up the mantle right after her predecessor, and she was deliberately made to contrast with Cass in the role, and had already established an identity for herself.

    Each one was thus a little bit more developed in a different way around the general concept of Batgirl, unlike the Robins, where all were intended to fill a usually familiar role.
    I agree. Visually all the Robins are quite similar and they all play the surrogate son (or in Damian's case actual son) role. The Batgirls are all fundamentally different in their roles.

    To Babs is just better as Oracle, nothing that has happened to her since being returned to batgirl status, has really convinced me otherwise. Burnside was okay, and everything else since then has been mostly forgettable. Hardly worth getting rid of one of the most unique superheroes for. To me Cass was the best Batgirl. I can take Steph as Batgirl or Spoiler.

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