Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[sunofdarkchild]

Doesn't the first movie have a scene where he guns down Napier's men at the factory where Napier becomes the Joker?

No. Batman's goal in that scene is to capture those men so that the police could use them to bring down Boss Grissom. Even if he was prone to murdering rampages, in that instance it would have gone against his interests to kill them. Later he he knowingly blows up Ace with many people inside while he waited outside.

The thugs he beats up in the opening scene are actually the first sign that this Batman is a killer. They talk about another crook Batman fought and very strongly implied that Batman killed him since the one who denies that Batman exists says that he "got ripped and took a walk off a roof, no big loss" and the other one talks about he fell "five stories straight down" followed by arguments over the state of his corpse and whether he was drained of all blood or his blood was all over the pavement.

[hareluyafan1]

I think that Batman also has to be reinvented i dont like how they have made him a Gary Stu God who does everything right is an expert in everything and do no Wrong

I fully agree with that.

that is not Realistic at least not a Realistic Batman where there is no Superman or characters with Super Powers i think Batman has to be a Scary character someone who is like an Urban Myth who is just a Crazy Grown Man who dresses as a Bat in late Night i think a Man like that in Real Life would not be right of the mind probably a Real Life Batman would use Guns and he would not have help from the Police at least not in a Realistic World i like Batman because he is someone that could exist in Real Life unlike Superman or Spiderman

Beg your pardon but superheroes are not supposed to be "realistic." They're meant to be iconic. Superheroes are modern myths.

And no, Batman could not exist in "real life." Please explain how a billionaire with unlimited money and a multi-national company, who is a genius, an expert in every single field of study, has an Olympic level physique, an arsenal of cutting-edge gadgets and a fleet of high-tech vehicles is in any way "realistic?"

Robin is not a Realistic character that is why there are very few adaptations of him in Live Action a Comic Book Robin can Work in a Typical Comic Book Movie but in a "Realistic" Batman Movie it could not Work thats why Christopher Nolan imagined Robin as an Adult Police Man and not a Kid or a Teenager
for now there is no a Kid Robin in Live Action yet for the same reasons every Robin in Live Action so far has been an Adult or a Teenager Adam West Robin was a Teenager not a Kid Dark Victory Comic reinvented the Origin of the Kid Robin but still many filmmakers ignore the Kid Robin for the Live Action Movies

I suggest you watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHpeVgO2FEk

I know Robin suffers from the "Joel Schumacher" stigma but the fact is that there is no reason why a comic-accurate Robin can't be done.

Batman, Joker, Two-face etc. are all silly, ridiculous concepts on paper. If those can work in a serious toned film then so can Robin.

still many filmmakers ignore the Kid Robin for the Live Action Movies

And frankly that's dumb. Batman and Robin are the Dynamic Duo, Batman needs Robin.

[Guy_McNichts]

Doesn't the first movie have a scene where he guns down Napier's men at the factory where Napier becomes the Joker?

No, he shoots one thug with a grappling gun and leaves him hanging, but the guy is clearly still alive. Otherwise, Bats just punches and knocks everyone out.

The thugs he beats up in the opening scene are actually the first sign that this Batman is a killer. They talk about another crook Batman fought and very strongly implied that Batman killed him since the one who denies that Batman exists says that he "got ripped and took a walk off a roof, no big loss" and the other one talks about he fell "five stories straight down" followed by arguments over the state of his corpse and whether he was drained of all blood or his blood was all over the pavement.

Yeah, that's what I meant by Johnny Dobbs's fate being dubious. Thug #1 insists Batman killed him. Thug #2 dismisses it as suicide. But we don't know if Batman did murder him or if his death was an accident.

That's my point. We don't see Batman outright kill anybody until the third act when he blows up Axis Chemicals and onward. Until then, he seems content punching and kicking dudes and knocking them out.
Seems more a last minute choice than conscious vision of the character's morals code.

Of course, the movie was also made in the time of Schwarzenegger and Die Hard where it was more common and unquestioned that heroes just shot the bad guys.

[Jackalope89]

It takes awhile into the film, but Batsy does begin to rack up his own body count.

[sunofdarkchild]

I remember watching the movie on TV with my dad as a kid. He complained about how all of Batman's missiles missed the Joker when he had locked onto the Joker's face. I said that of course they missed because Batman doesn't kill. Then Batman threw that henchman down the skyscraper and my dad said "what do you mean he doesn't kill? He just killed that guy." And I had no response. I just knew that the hero I looked up to from the comics and cartoon wasn't the same in the movie.

[hareluyafan1]

Of course, the movie was also made in the time of Schwarzenegger and Die Hard where it was more common and unquestioned that heroes just shot the bad guys.

The problem is that Schwarzenegger and his ilk aren't mythic figures. Superheroes are.

[JBatmanFan05]

I think that Batman also has to be reinvented i dont like how they have made him a Gary Stu God who does everything right is an expert in everything and do no Wrong that is not Realistic at least not a Realistic Batman where there is no Superman or characters with Super Powers i think Batman has to be a Scary character someone who is like an Urban Myth who is just a Crazy Grown Man who dresses as a Bat in late Night i think a Man like that in Real Life would not be right of the mind probably a Real Life Batman would use Guns and he would not have help from the Police at least not in a Realistic World i like Batman because he is someone that could exist in Real Life unlike Superman or Spiderman

Frank Miller, is that you?

[JediBatman54]

A Realistic Batman would definitely Kill Real Life Criminals are too Cruel its hard for me to believe that a Real Life Batman would follow his No Kill Rule forever i think the No Kill Rule works better in the Comic Book World even all the Governments of the World have Killed someone so why not Batman? Batman is a Dark Character i think No Kill Rule is better for Superman also probably a Realistic Batman would use Guns to defend himself from Criminals

Im becoming more like Alan Moore i like Comics and their Characters but i feel that there is a certain group of Fans who do not want to see more Complex Stories they always want Good Guys vs Bad Guys Stories for the Eternity and that is very Boring i think most of Comic Book Fans just want to relive their Childhood they dont want to see more Complex Stories like Killing Joke, Watchmen or V of Vendetta

I enjoy the Batman and DC Elseworlds or Black Label Stories more than the Main Canon Stories of the Comics

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

A Realistic Batman would definitely Kill Real Life Criminals are too Cruel its hard for me to believe that a Real Life Batman would follow his No Kill Rule forever i think the No Kill Rule works better in the Comic Book World even all the Governments of the World have Killed someone so why not Batman? Batman is a Dark Character i think No Kill Rule is better for Superman also probably a Realistic Batman would use Guns to defend himself from Criminals

Im becoming more like Alan Moore i like Comics and their Characters but i feel that there is a certain group of Fans who do not want to see more Complex Stories they always want Good Guys vs Bad Guys Stories for the Eternity and that is very Boring i think most of Comic Book Fans just want to relive their Childhood they dont want to see more Complex Stories like Killing Joke, Watchmen or V of Vendetta

I enjoy the Batman and DC Elseworlds or Black Label Stories more than the Main Canon Stories of the Comics

I don't mind more complex stories in comics. I just don't think I need Superman or Batman for that. That's what Vertigo was for and Indie comics could fill that niche better than DC or marvel.

[exile001]

I don't mind more complex stories in comics. I just don't think I need Superman or Batman for that. That's what Vertigo was for and Indie comics could fill that niche better than DC or marvel.

I'll go one further, how would Batman killing automatically make a story more complex? Fear State would have been exactly the same if Batman just shot Scarecrow at the end.

Only then we wouldn't have another Scarecrow story, or worse, have to resurrect him.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'll go one further, how would Batman killing automatically make a story more complex? Fear State would have been exactly the same if Batman just shot Scarecrow at the end.

Only then we wouldn't have another Scarecrow story, or worse, have to resurrect him.

Daredevil did kill someone but the comic dealt with the fallout of that act. So unless DC was willing to do the same, there's no real point in doing it.

Scarecrow had a female counterpart called Fright. DC could just use her as she'd be the next Harley Quinn/Catwoman...

[exile001]

A Realistic Batman would definitely Kill Real Life Criminals are too Cruel its hard for me to believe that a Real Life Batman would follow his No Kill Rule forever i think the No Kill Rule works better in the Comic Book World even all the Governments of the World have Killed someone so why not Batman? Batman is a Dark Character i think No Kill Rule is better for Superman also probably a Realistic Batman would use Guns to defend himself from Criminals

This is, as always with you "Batman should kill" types, you coming to an existing character and wanting them to fit your way of thinking rather than accepting the character for what they are.

If you don't like Batman with a no kill rule or want him using guns, then go read another character. Batman does not kill. That is a fundamental part of him.

And if you want to get "real world" about this, Batman would have been captured by police and locked away within a few weeks of operating. And that would have happened even quicker if he were gunning down anything in his path.

Im becoming more like Alan Moore

I assure you, you're not.

i like Comics and their Characters but i feel that there is a certain group of Fans who do not want to see more Complex Stories they always want Good Guys vs Bad Guys Stories for the Eternity and that is very Boring

Then don't read them?

Nobody here is looking for your approval, and if you think DC/Marvel are suddenly going to change their entire structure of telling superhero stories on a dime because you find them boring then I've got news for you. You are not that important.

i think most of Comic Book Fans just want to relive their Childhood they dont want to see more Complex Stories like Killing Joke, Watchmen or V of Vendetta

Ah yes, Killing Joke, Watchmen and V. Everyone's "my first grown up comics." How broad your understanding of the medium must be to throw up such rare, obscure and unexplored hidden gems. Lol.

Also, thanks for the unrequested armchair psychology, but you sound like a moody teenager so...

I enjoy the Batman and DC Elseworlds or Black Label Stories more than the Main Canon Stories of the Comics

As do I, but for the most part Batman doesn't kill in those, either. The Impostor is excellent and is a great examination of why batman doesn't kill.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Robin could work in live action as Titans showcased but it would have to be an adult Robin and an older Bruce. Both Dick and Jason were over 20.

[exile001]

Daredevil did kill someone but the comic dealt with the fallout of that act. So unless DC was willing to do the same, there's no real point in doing it.

If you're talking about Zdarsky's arc, that was really poorly done and didn't have too much real consequence. It made Matt question himself (what a shock!) and ultimately landed him a jail just long enough to expose that it was itself corrupt. Ultimately, it had no more impact than when he killed Bullseye.

It didn't delve into what it means for a hero to kill, how it effects their standing with the whole community and has long lasting effects I don't see the point in doing it. I kept waiting for it to be revealed as a hoax and I'm only now convinced it wasn't as the writer has completely moved on.

I have been enjoying Zdarsky's Daredevil but his run up to Devil's Reign was little but a "best of" run of things from previous creators.

Scarecrow had a female counterpart called Fright. DC could just use her.

Sure, but if you're going to replace Scarecrow with Scarecrow then what's the point in killing him? It's a zero sum game as you start and end with Scarecrow. Then Batman kills her and the Scare-Beast comes back.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

If you're talking about Zdarsky's arc, that was really poorly done and didn't have too much real consequence. It made Matt question himself (what a shock!) and ultimately landed him a jail just long enough to expose that it was itself corrupt. Ultimately, it had no more impact than when he killed Bullseye.

It didn't delve into what it means for a hero to kill, how it effects their standing with the whole community and has long lasting effects I don't see the point in doing it. I kept waiting for it to be revealed as a hoax and I'm only now convinced it wasn't as the writer has completely moved on.

I have been enjoying Zdarsky's Daredevil but his run up to Devil's Reign was little but a "best of" run of things from previous creators.



Sure, but if you're going to replace Scarecrow with Scarecrow then what's the point in killing him? It's a zero sum game as you start and end with Scarecrow. Then Batman kills her and the Scare-Beast comes back.

Hot female characters sell more.

I disagree on your Daredevil comment. I think it did have great effect in the present and lead to more interesting stories currently. We just had to put up with a wasted prison arc, a meh Bullseye arc and a weak crossover event to get there.