Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Majesty]

In Batman Beyond she is married to another guy, how was she and Bruce the endgame? And in the comics that continued, she and Dick stay together.

Essentially this in the Timmverse

Her and Dick dated
She gets with Bruce while dating Dick
Her and Dick stay together
She eventually leaves Dick when she realizes it's just puppy love
She gets with Bruce
Dick becomes Nightwing
She still stays with Bruce
Her and Bruce become engaged/married.

Eventually Bruce can't give up being Batman, so they separate.
She winds up marrying someone that is neither Bruce nor Dick in her old age.

Essentially in the Timm-verse the "serious" relationship she has is with Bruce, and the only thing she considers her time with Dick to be is "puppy love". So no, they aren't the serious relationship in the Timm-verse. That was with Bruce and then with her eventual husband.

Diana also had to serve Bruce Timm's pleasure.

Yeah, a lot of the Wonder Woman x Bruce Wayne stuff started during the Justice League series. A pairing I actually am quite fond of tbh.

[Godlike13]

Whats more Dick and Babs was the only romantic relationship we actually got to see in BTAS with Babs. Her relationship with Bruce was just a mention, and her husband was just im with this dude now. We didn't actually see those relationships. Which is one of the reasons why its what popularized Dick and Babs as a romance despite where the show ultimately took them.

And no she didn't get with Bruce while dating Dick. Dick and Babs broke up when Dick quit, the infamous punch, and apparently never got back together. Not sure where you are getting she married Bruce. Its was mentioned that they got together at some point, but they never went into detail. Which just goes to show how serious it was.

[Jackalope89]

Essentially this in the Timmverse

Her and Dick dated
She gets with Bruce while dating Dick
Her and Dick stay together
She eventually leaves Dick when she realizes it's just puppy love
She gets with Bruce
Dick becomes Nightwing
She still stays with Bruce
Her and Bruce become engaged/married.

Eventually Bruce can't give up being Batman, so they separate.
She winds up marrying someone that is neither Bruce nor Dick in her old age.

Essentially in the Timm-verse the "serious" relationship she has is with Bruce, and the only thing she considers her time with Dick to be is "puppy love". So no, they aren't the serious relationship in the Timm-verse. That was with Bruce and then with her eventual husband.



Yeah, a lot of the Wonder Woman x Bruce Wayne stuff started during the Justice League series. A pairing I actually am quite fond of tbh.

If it had actually bothered to go anywhere, and make something meaningful on both sides (not just Diana gushing over him), I'd be more inclined to like it now.
But Bruce Timm even had Batman cuck (no other way to put it) Superman when he dated Lois for a time. Timm's version of Batman is the definition of Gary Stue, and didn't need to do a thing to get even the most respectable female characters tripping over themselves to get into his pants. Even Cheetah. CHEETAH, is included in that!

[Felipe Silveira]

In Batman Beyond it's just said they had something and there's a picture. In the comics, which didn't improve anything, Dick returns to Gotham and is dating Barbara. Barbara finds out she's pregnant, Bruce even wishes Dick happiness, but Barbara says by the time, it's before she and Dick got back.
Barbara loses the baby, Dick fights with Bruce and leaves the city.
After that Barbara never stayed with Bruce again, and married another guy whose name I don't remember.
With Terry as Batman, Dick reappears in Gotham as "Nick Fury", I don't remember what happened to Barbara's husband but Dick and she end up together. The end.

[Majesty]

If it had actually bothered to go anywhere, and make something meaningful on both sides (not just Diana gushing over him), I'd be more inclined to like it now.
But Bruce Timm even had Batman cuck (no other way to put it) Superman when he dated Lois for a time. Timm's version of Batman is the definition of Gary Stue, and didn't need to do a thing to get even the most respectable female characters tripping over themselves to get into his pants. Even Cheetah. CHEETAH, is included in that!

We have Timm to thank for "Because I'm Batman." becoming the answer to everything essentially.

[Majesty]

In Batman Beyond it's just said they had something and there's a picture. In the comics, which didn't improve anything, Dick returns to Gotham and is dating Barbara. Barbara finds out she's pregnant, Bruce even wishes Dick happiness, but Barbara says by the time, it's before she and Dick got back.
Barbara loses the baby, Dick fights with Bruce and leaves the city.
After that Barbara never stayed with Bruce again, and married another guy whose name I don't remember.
With Terry as Batman, Dick reappears in Gotham as "Nick Fury", I don't remember what happened to Barbara's husband but Dick and she end up together. The end.

In Batman beyond Barbara full out confirms that she chose Bruce over Dick and became more than "a girlfriend" with him.



0:42 Seconds

Terry: So you and Dick Grayson, like, dated?
Barbara: In college. Puppy love. Later on we just never talked about it.
Terry: People should communicate more.
Barbara: Dick finally got fed up living in Batman's shadow. He decided to leave. He was hurt when I chose to stay behind with Bruce.
Terry: As his partner.
Barbara: *cheeky smirk*
Terry: His girlfriend?
Barbara: *takes a sip and gives a super cheeky smirk*
Terry: Whoa...

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

She chose Bruce over Dick. She only considered Dick college puppy love, nothing more.

[Felipe Silveira]

I don't know why you cling to it so much, but ok, keep it then. A few seconds of dialogue from Batman Beyond.

[JediBatman54]

The Joker movie is the Darkest thing we will see in the Batman franchise in a Live Action movie a real life Joker would be like Jeffrey Dahmer or like John Wayne Gacy we will never see that tonality again in any Batman movie because it would be too Dark for the Super Heroes/Comic Book movie Genre lets be honest Batman and Super Heroes are characters that Kids see it i know the Batman franchise has a lot of potential for an more Adult Oriented Audience but i think if they go to for that route they will going to scare off the Child Consumers so not more money on Legos, Cartoons or Kids Merchandise thats why the Batman 2022 movie is less Dark compared to Joker 2019 because More Kids watch Batman

Who knows if Joker 2 Folie à Deux will have the same Dark tone or will be more Relaxed i think it will be less Dark than the first movie and would be a more typical Comic Book movie

I think that in the end Joker 1 and Watchmen will be the Darkest movies of the Super Heroes Genre i dont consider Deadpool and Logan because Deadpool is more of a comedy and Logan is more of a fantasy i would have liked to see a Live Action Injustice movie, or a Live Action Rated R Batman movie but i dont think they will happen in today world either

[Crabble]

Tim isn't boring.

Not a fan of the story where Bruce benches Dick from being Robin after the latter gets shot at.

[redmax99]

Tim isn't boring.

Not a fan of the story where Bruce benches Dick from being Robin after the latter gets shot at.

at least it better than dick getting fired at 15

[The Cool Thatguy]

Tim isn't boring.

Not a fan of the story where Bruce benches Dick from being Robin after the latter gets shot at.

Tim is boring, so long as the stories lean into the super hero stuff, and not the noir.

When Bat comics are like they're supposed to be, Tim is the stoic bat-ass who can face down horrors without internalizing them.

[Rac7d*]

In Batman beyond Barbara full out confirms that she chose Bruce over Dick and became more than "a girlfriend" with him.



0:42 Seconds

Terry: So you and Dick Grayson, like, dated?
Barbara: In college. Puppy love. Later on we just never talked about it.
Terry: People should communicate more.
Barbara: Dick finally got fed up living in Batman's shadow. He decided to leave. He was hurt when I chose to stay behind with Bruce.
Terry: As his partner.
Barbara: *cheeky smirk*
Terry: His girlfriend?
Barbara: *takes a sip and gives a super cheeky smirk*
Terry: Whoa...

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

She chose Bruce over Dick. She only considered Dick college puppy love, nothing more.

You don’t seem grossed out enough about Batman being infatuated with somone he as an adult knew as child and watched grow up
This relationship is Bruce Times stain

[godisawesome]

If anything, I’d argue it’s the sheer pervy and toxic way that professional creators view the idea of Bruce and Babs as an item that has kind for solidified it as a hated, unpopular, and unworkable relationship, since it tends to require obvious character assassination of at least one member of the pairing, and sometimes both, a very off-putting way

Like, normally, a “toxic ‘ship” tends to be more a case of naivety and apathetically overlooking problems with one or more members, and just plugging in a (still out of character) “harmless” personality into one member; that’s why a lot of the Harley/Joker fans tend to talk about a kind hearted, angsty Joker who doesn’t exist, but also isn’t narcissistic and socipathically abusive towards Harley. It may be a trashy ‘ship to support, but it’s still got some aspect of a wish-fulfillment to have a caring and loving partner.

In contrast, whenever Bruce Timm, his associates, or someone trying to follow him writes the relationship, it always becomes about the horrible power dynamics and implied depravity the relationship could have, and gets presented as the “feature” of the relationship, whether for pervy male fantasies or “realistically flawed” character drama that no one actually wants to follow through on with Bruce elsewhere… though they do seem okay with screwing over Babs’s portrayal…

People can take Bruce being an asshole to some extent, but “steal you son’s girlfriend/seduce your best friend’s daughter/manipulate a young protege into a sexual relationship” levels of assholery really aren’t accepted, especially since “BatDad” and “BatJerk with a Heart of Gold” are more popular; hell, many fans can’t even stand the “Bruce is totally banging women and discarding them left, right and center to maintain his cover, dude!” portrayal of Bruce because of both the foolishness required of him to do so (his scars, weird hours, etc.) as well as because of the moral implications (more “…does he not have empathy?” criticism than prudishness.)

As for Babs… I think most Babs fans would argue that making her the naive, manipulated young girl with a crippling thing for much older men just isn’t Babs, and to an extent beyond the usual rejection of the portrayal of the “girl in love with a bad boy in fanfiction” archetype. Just look at The Killing Joke movie version of Babs - I don’t think a single Babs fan can stand that movie, and largely because Babs’s characterization is what the film is screwing over and making vapid for the sake of that thing with Bruce.

[Timothy Hunter]

Tim far and away is the best Robin. We got to see him grow up from teenager to adult in his ongoing series that almost lasted 200 issues. Despite going on for 16 years and being handled by 5 different writers, each run on the book (aside from Jon Lewis) was surprisingly consistent from one to the next.

I don't think that Tim Drake is the most complex character in the world, but the wealth of great stories under his belt makes him blow Damian and Jason out of the water. I like both Damian and Jason but we never got to see them grow up the same way we saw Tim. Jason died when he was in his tweens and then he was resurrected as an adult. Damian was utilized greatly in Morrison and Tomasi's Batman and Robin, but I feel we need a solo series starring him that lasts for a truly long time.

If you were to argue with me that Dick Grayson was a better character I wouldn't argue with you. Dick was Robin for the first 43 years of that mantle's existence, but I much prefer his later years as Nightwing and Batman.

[Mutant God]

It may be cliche, but tbh how healthy their relationship was. Supportive, understanding, there wasn't much drama in terms of their relationship (unless it was something Dick caused). I also thought they were adorable at her friend's wedding.

I wonder if Luke and Babs is the comic version of Babs and Sam Young from Batman Beyond?