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  1. #1831
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I like the kid heroes, even if they are unrealistic - so much else is, too. But I can understand the desire not to have any more now that comics are supposedly "more realistic" (I'd argue they are just unrealistic in different ways). Still don't want the ones we already had erased or retconned to starting older.

  2. #1832
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham citizen View Post
    A thirteen year old boy is too immature to be a anything, he can to want became a superhero and he can create (a lot of) trouble with this desire, but he cannot be an hero, maybe when he become sixteen year old might be enough mature, but not first.
    By that I mean no one would say anything about Batman having kids helping him. That any little bit to helps Gotham. One question also which in a way was answered in Batman: animated series. Is Batman making the villains or are the villans already crazy before Batman

  3. #1833
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    In my opinion Gotham created Batman and his enemies, but in this moment it is a topic too complex for me, so I prefer await a little and explain what I mean another time.

    About the Robin's age I wanted say in the book Robin did never behaved like an actual thirteen year old boy and neither he could, because he would be a source of trouble, not an help for Batman and in fact he behaved, talked and thought in a way more similar to a sixteen year old boy; at least this is the feeling I had reading the stories with Robin.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 12-12-2019 at 01:36 PM.
    «Let me get this straight: you kink that your client, […], is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands and your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck.»

    «Joker is a violent and inartistic movie, not like that masterpiece of A Clockwork Orange.» Yes, some critic of the AMPAS was able to say that.

    «What weight 6 ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?» «A sparrow with a machine gun!» from "Batman'66 the movie"

  4. #1834
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Damian definitely acts older than most 13 olds but there's a reason for that. I think younger heroes like Tim, Bart, Cassie, Jon and the Titans didn't act any older or younger than they actually were though. Some of them were smarter than the average child (Tim in particular) but they still acted like kids.

  5. #1835
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I get why due to his upbringing. At times I wish Damien was less and less uptight. We see that but then writers go back and change him as if he was meeting Bruce for the first time. I don’t mind his personality just cat times I feel they aren’t letting him grow.

  6. #1836
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I've been saying something similar for a few years now. Damian and his emotional growth has always fluctuated more than his physical growth. Especially during (and after, to an extent) Rebirth, where he could almost be a completely different person depending on who writes him. I wouldn't say there's no growth at all but a lot of the times it really does feel like he's learning the same lessons all over again.

  7. #1837
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Honestly, though, Batman Robin and Batgirl is the most classic must-have core team
    You can include Batwoman if you want
    Then the core supporting cast is the Info Breaker, Healer, and Inventor/Engineer.
    In this case, it's usually Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius.
    You can add an extra helper since Wayne Manor is big
    Those are the cast
    The rest either has to have their own book because they're gonna be background characters if you go beyond that.

    Now since Batgirl and Robin are popular enough characters that can maintain their own book and supporting cast, you can replace them with another set of male and female sidekicks in the Batman books.
    Currently, that should be Duke and Cass, but in a different era, they can be different characters, like Jean-Paul and Luke, since Stephanie can be a cast for Young Justice and Helena for Birds of Prey.

    Either way, the regular sidekick/supporting role within Batman books should be given to those who don't have their own team or can't carry their own books. The Bat Family's only crowded when they try to include everyone but most of the time they don't.

    The big ones like Dick, Jason, Tim, Babs, and Damian have their own books, and they shouldn't be dragged into a Batman book to be assistants, especially the ones who operate in a different city. Unless it's not just a Bat-family crossover, but a regional event that involves the cities they operate, and a kind of anniversary.

    While they're a Batfam member, they should be treated more as main characters with their own supporting cast. They've graduated, so leave them be.

    Well, maybe not Damian since he's a son and underage...
    Here is the problem with give to those who don't have their own team or can't carry their own books. Sometimes its just boils down to there are character that people are interested in, and characters that people aren't very interested in. The ones that can carry their own book are the one they know people are interested in. So who would you use characters people will pay money to read about or character who people don't know or could give 2 shits about. Part of the reason the Bat family has got so bloated and redundant is because they keep creating new members that don't necessarily catch to fill the roles left by the one that did catch.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-12-2019 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #1838
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    This is why maybe characters like Batwing could me a little more in the Batman books than Nightwing.

  9. #1839
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Except if someone shot Batwing in the head no one would give a shit. Thats not big deal or traumatic moment for Batman's character or his readers. Though apparently Dick getting shot isn't either, but you get my point. They need to better balance doing more with the characters people actually care about and creating new characters to fill old roles. Otherwise you find yourself with a bloated and redundant cast portions of your fan base starts to resent.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-12-2019 at 09:46 PM.

  10. #1840
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Here is the problem with give to those who don't have their own team or can't carry their own books. Sometimes its just boils down to there are character that people are interested in, and characters that people aren't very interested in. The ones that can carry their own book are the one they know people are interested in. So who would you use characters people will pay money to read about or character who people don't know or could give 2 shits about. Part of the reason the Bat family has got so bloated and redundant is because they keep creating new members that don't necessarily catch to fill the roles left by the one that did catch.
    I don't really see the problem since they're gonna be a supporting cast and not the main character.

    You mean they like to use the popular character because they make their fans want to read the Batman books? But there are already more people reading Batman books than Batfam books, sometimes double the numbers. They don't need more. Though I guess numbers are numbers.

    and yeah they should stop creating more.

  11. #1841
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    You don't want a supporting cast people aren't interested in, that doesn't help your main character or book overall. And just because Batman sells more then Bat family books doesn't mean the Batman books doesn't needs more readers or even to keep readers. Take Catwoman for example, what do you think is a bigger draw. Them teasing marriage between Batman and Catwoman, a character a relationship people are invested in, or some new person no one knows or or would care about otherwise.

    And my point isn't to stop creating new characters, thats not good either, but there needs to be a better balance. Like i said they need to balance doing more with the characters people actually care about and creating interesting new characters to fill old roles in new and interesting ways. We don't need 17 different versions of the same character to do similar things, but at the same time no new characters isn't any fun either.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-12-2019 at 10:26 PM.

  12. #1842
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The issue is how many characters should be in the books. We need a balance to make it okay. Like maybe Batwing and Dick on in one issue and it recycles. Batfam is there but each other doesn't appear too often

  13. #1843
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Hmm... maybe those YA graphic novels or digital-only books would be the better way if there are not enough fans of that character to move the numbers for single issues or if the readers aren't the type who go to the comics shop.

    But in order to get those books, the characters have to be reasonably popular first, like how Cass and Super Sons got graphic novels now.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 12-12-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  14. #1844
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean I don't mind new characters but I feel no one really would cares for them

  15. #1845
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Also i think its fair to point out, a lot of new Bat characters aren't even created to be supporting characters. Now they often just slap the Bat brand on characters created or envisioned to be central characters. Dick was created to be Bruce's Watson, so its his character to be able to help support Batman. To a fault now maybe, but still. But a character that was mentioned like Cass Cain. That character wasn't built to support anyone. Its uncharacteristic for her to even lose a fight. Seriously if a non super powered character even touches her, and even some super powered people, its often perceived as out of characters. Now im not trying to knock Cass here, thats not my point here, but hopefully you see what im saying. Batwing is another one. He was created to be the Batman of Africa, and then recreated to be a Batman Beyond/Nightwing like central character. Shoot him in the head just to make Batman sad. Your gonna find yourself with people who either don't care or find it offensive.

    BTW i say this as someone who would have loved to see anyone else shot in the head instead of Dick at this point. I don't want what im saying to be misconstrue to i just want Dick in Batman. Right now the further he could get away from Batman and the current Bat office the better IMO.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-12-2019 at 10:44 PM.

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