Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Tzigone]

I thought it worked okay in the 90s (besides the crossovers) in that Tim had his book and his supporting characters, and his supporting characters didn't generally show up in Batman (so I would not have ever considered them Batfam). But Tim was still young and learning. Dick wasn't as spun-off in that era as earlier, and I do think the distance he had earlier helped, and he still had more distance with Tim. Whenever he's with Batman, he doesn't shine as brightly because someone decided he absolutely had to be inferior to Batman when they are together. I don't know if it's to preserve rank or because it happens more often in Batman books and Batman's the star (the latter, though, doesn't seem to apply to Batman in other people's books). I almost dread them working together sometimes, because there is too often a "put him in his place and his place isn't equal footing" element.

In the late 90s early 2000s, they had the following members running around in costume, and back then it worked quite good:
1. Bruce
2. Dick
3. Tim
4. Barbara
5. Cass
6. Steph
7. Selina
8. Helena
9. Jean-Paul

So I think that's about the maximum you could do. Of course it is easier with less, and I'm not sure if the current writers could handle that many characters.

I think these worked, even if I didn't love them all. I think it helped that many operated independently and did not work for Batman, did not use his cave, did not live or even have dinner at his house, etc. Now, certainly that's happening now, but in a less palatable way, since instead of them just being independent operators, they're being diminished/disregarded by Batman.

[Restingvoice]

Honestly, though, Batman Robin and Batgirl is the most classic must-have core team
You can include Batwoman if you want
Then the core supporting cast is the Info Breaker, Healer, and Inventor/Engineer.
In this case, it's usually Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius.
You can add an extra helper since Wayne Manor is big
Those are the cast
The rest either has to have their own book because they're gonna be background characters if you go beyond that.

Now since Batgirl and Robin are popular enough characters that can maintain their own book and supporting cast, you can replace them with another set of male and female sidekicks in the Batman books.
Currently, that should be Duke and Cass, but in a different era, they can be different characters, like Jean-Paul and Luke, since Stephanie can be a cast for Young Justice and Helena for Birds of Prey.

Either way, the regular sidekick/supporting role within Batman books should be given to those who don't have their own team or can't carry their own books. The Bat Family's only crowded when they try to include everyone but most of the time they don't.

The big ones like Dick, Jason, Tim, Babs, and Damian have their own books, and they shouldn't be dragged into a Batman book to be assistants, especially the ones who operate in a different city. Unless it's not just a Bat-family crossover, but a regional event that involves the cities they operate, and a kind of anniversary.

While they're a Batfam member, they should be treated more as main characters with their own supporting cast. They've graduated, so leave them be.

Well, maybe not Damian since he's a son and underage...

[Tzigone]

Then the core supporting cast is the Info Breaker, Healer, and Inventor/Engineer.
In this case, it's usually Gordon, Alfred, and Lucius.

I agree on info breaker - they did fine without a dedicated healer or engineer for decades.

Now since Batgirl and Robin are popular enough characters that can maintain their own book and supporting cast, you can replace them with another set of male and female sidekicks in the Batman books.
Currently, that should be Duke and Cass, but in a different era, they can be different characters, like Jean-Paul and Luke, since Stephanie can be a cast for Young Justice and Helena for Birds of Prey.

Either way, the regular sidekick/supporting role within Batman books should be given to those who don't have their own team or can't carry their own books. The Bat Family's only crowded when they try to include everyone but most of the time they don't.

I agree partially. But those growing out of the sidekick role need not to be ignored and rarely to be killed off, and never to be forgotten. They shouldn't cycle kids/youths if they don't want Batman growing older, either. If time passes (instead of freezing for non-aging purposes), then adult side kicks need to start being regarded as equals.

While they're a Batfam member, they should be treated more as main characters with their own supporting cast. They've graduated, so leave them be.

Kind of agree.

Well, maybe not Damian since he's a son and underage...

I think Dick and Jason should be just as much regarded as sons as Damian. Albeit now the are grown sons (and I believe the relationship between a parent and grown child should be one of equals). I'm more on the fence with Tim and Cass and being adopted and/or regarded as Bruce's kids, but that's a separate issue that's about personal preference. And, despite it making no sense, isn't Tim still underage, too? I'd thought he went to 18, but then was told that despite Damian's age up and his college cover-story, he was still 16?

BTW, did "sidekick" ever become popular within the universe? I know fans use it, of course. And it's a proper description of the role. But originally Robin was often (always?) "partner" - sure we all knew he was very much a junior partner, but the language used was less overtly unequal.

[Zaresh]

Mmmm. I think it did good during decades because Batman's menaces and gadgets weren't so dangerous or sophisticated. Nowadays, with how dangerous his enemies are, and how much dependant on complex technology he is, he needs some help to be believabe, or be believable that he can sustain a passable façade in his civilian life and persona.

[Restingvoice]

I agree on info breaker - they did fine without a dedicated healer or engineer for decades.

I agree partially. But those growing out of the sidekick role need not to be ignored and rarely to be killed off, and never to be forgotten. They shouldn't cycle kids/youths if they don't want Batman growing older, either. If time passes (instead of freezing for non-aging purposes), then adult side kicks need to start being regarded as equals.

Kind of agree.

I think Dick and Jason should be just as much regarded as sons as Damian. Albeit now the are grown sons (and I believe the relationship between a parent and grown child should be one of equals). I'm more on the fence with Tim and Cass and being adopted and/or regarded as Bruce's kids, but that's a separate issue that's about personal preference. And, despite it making no sense, isn't Tim still underage, too? I'd thought he went to 18, but then was told that despite Damian's age up and his college cover-story, he was still 16?

BTW, did "sidekick" ever become popular within the universe? I know fans use it, of course. And it's a proper description of the role. But originally Robin was often (always?) "partner" - sure we all knew he was very much a junior partner, but the language used was less overtly unequal.

The engineer is needed as the gadgets get more advanced, so it's more needed now compared to decades ago. Healer, even multiple ones maybe needed as the family grows bigger. It's just good to have back up outside of the costumed heroes in case they're all incapacitated at the same time.

Yeah, Tim is still underage too, but all of them are used to go off on their own, so I guess I automatically emphasize on Damian because he's the baby.

Not sure about sidekicks. After Golden Age Robin, everyone gets some, and it still continues to recent years. More often in the story, it's the sidekick that starts appealing to the adults, sometimes nagging and doing dangerous things until the adult heroes are like "FIIIINE... it's better me training you than you end up dead"

The term sidekick isn't really used in the story unless a third person is narrating by describing what the heroes' relations are, or if the former sidekicks call themselves a former sidekick in their narration boxes.

[Tzigone]

The term sidekick isn't really used in the story unless a third person is narrating by describing what the heroes' relations are, or if the former sidekicks call themselves a former sidekick in their narration boxes.

Yes, it's in-story use of the term that I was talking about, not their existence.

[AmiMizuno]

I know it's a comic but how does the Batfam get around with not have CPS called on them for having underage minors in dangerous events. I often wanted to see a parody of that.

[Restingvoice]

I know it's a comic but how does the Batfam get around with not have CPS called on them for having underage minors in dangerous events. I often wanted to see a parody of that.

The CPS doesn't know where they live and The Bat-Signal is on the rooftop of GCPD, inaccessible to most people.

Yes, it's in-story use of the term that I was talking about, not their existence.

Then yeah, it's used in those cases. Like a thug explaining "That's Nightwing. Batman's first sidekick" to another thug. So I guess the term is quite common.

[Tzigone]

The CPS doesn't know where they live and The Bat-Signal is on the rooftop of GCPD, inaccessible to most people.

What about a court order to turn it on the lure them and social services grabbing the kid (just ignoring all the cops that occasionally interact with the younger members and could act then). Well, it'd be funny for a parody, anyway - especially if it was Damian.

Then yeah, it's used in those cases. Like a thug explaining "That's Nightwing. Batman's first sidekick" to another thug. So I guess the term is quite common.

Okay, so I guess now the question is when it started getting used a lot.

[Gotham citizen]

So the Commissioner Gordon is the one who risks everything with the children protection service.
I think Robin should be 18/20 years old (no more older).

[AmiMizuno]

So the Commissioner Gordon is the one who risks everything with the children protection service.
I think Robin should be 18/20 years old (no more older).

If anything Gordon can arrest Batman. But in a sense it makes sense. Gotham is a messed up place. So Kids can be superheroes.

[Restingvoice]

What about a court order to turn it on the lure them and social services grabbing the kid (just ignoring all the cops that occasionally interact with the younger members and could act then). Well, it'd be funny for a parody, anyway - especially if it was Damian.


Okay, so I guess now the question is when it started getting used a lot.

Court order can do that. Other people that also can override Gordon's authority are the FBI or Amanda Waller. Other people charismatic enough to convince him to change his mind like Harvey Dent in the old days can apply.

Most of the Gothamites are probably so thankful for Batman and Robin that they don't want to report them.

No idea when they started to use the term sidekick.

[jetengine]

Batman has been called out a few times for endangering kids in his vigilante antics. Iirc the Flash really let loose on him.

[AmiMizuno]

I mean what would be one way around this sitution? I mean in many cases we due have robins getting PTSD

[Gotham citizen]

If anything Gordon can arrest Batman. But in a sense it makes sense. Gotham is a messed up place. So Kids can be superheroes.

A thirteen year old boy is too immature to be a anything, he can to want became a superhero and he can create (a lot of) trouble with this desire, but he cannot be an hero, maybe when he become sixteen year old might be enough mature, but not first.