Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Tzigone]

Tim and Dick cannot be described as outcasts by any definition of the word. Dick was taken in because Bruce felt sorry for him after his parents died and Tim was a suburban-raised kid who had his own circle of friends before he ever met Batman. Damian isn't an outcast just anti-social and Duke also had friends before he met Bruce.

I definitely don't think the Robins were outcasts. But what friends did Tim have before meeting Batman. I know we met his public school friends in the 90s (I liked them existing), but I don't recall meeting or hearing reference to any school friends before he moved to Bristol (honestly, I'm not sure where his parents lived before that - they were later said to have a penthouse in Gotham and Tim himself was in boarding school at the time we met him). Did we meet them later or see them in flashbacks? Anyway, I don't remember anything indicating him in a outcast state, certainly. But I also certainly don't remember everything.

For me, an outcast is someone who isn't accepted or welcome in the larger society around them (could be school, community, or general world). Definitely applies to the Doom Patrol. Doesn't really apply to any of the Bats who immediately come to mind. Tim had a bully at his first school, sure, but plenty of friends, and the entire group was not generally ostracized. Dick has always been generally well-liked. Barbara and Steph and Duke are all ones who seemed to have friends, even if we didn't see them much. Cass and Jason might come closest in the sense of how the homeless are generally treated. Cass's communication difficulties separate her from people, but not equate to outcast status to me. Alfred and Bruce are easily accepted in larger society and both used to have friends before Bruce got all brooding (and who they think he is is still very accepted) and before Alfred became all about Bruce. Damian's a weird case. Can't really comment on everyone else.

[Katana500]

Maybe you could argue Dick as an outcast due to his Romani heritage. Since Romani seem to be hated wherever they go - albeit im not sure the extent of that in the USA compared to say Europe.

[Aahz]

Tim had a bully at his first school, sure, but plenty of friends, and the entire group was not generally ostracized.

Not really, if you mean Karl Ranck he was the standard arrogant Jock but he never really bullied Tim, in his frist appearance he iirc even invited Tim to hang out with him instead of his geek friends.

The only instance I can remember that one could be considered bulling, was him bragging with his car in front of Adriana (when Tim didn't had a drivers license), which was quite harmless even if it really got under Tims skin.

[Godlike13]

Outcast in what perspective, outcasts in the Batfamily or outcasts in society?

[king81992]

From a narrative perspective, Dick(and most of the Titans characters)are outcasts because of their marginalized role in the comics and years of derailment by writers/ editorial.

There were times when Dick alienated his frienda and teammates but he was never an outcast.

Tim and his buddies were never outcasts as well, they were more like likable popular kids until Johns and his successors got hold of them and they got derailed.

[Godlike13]

Dick grew up in a circus. Not sure if the makes him an outcast, but raised with outcasts.

[Tzigone]

Dick grew up in a circus. Not sure if the makes him an outcast, but raised with outcasts.

I disagree. They're just people with jobs. Nothing, by definition, makes circus employees outcasts. There's the very old "freak show" aspect, but I can't think of an occasion where Haly's is said to have such a thing. But, admittedly, I only remember about two stories with the circus, so only remember aerialists, clowns, and a strongman.

[Godlike13]

Not really, circus life is a lifestyle. Moving town from town, living outside of society norms with its own community. Circus people don't wake up, clock in, then go home like its a regular 9 to 5. Circus' and carnivals are havens for outcasts. Its why the Court used it for a Talon farm.

[Restingvoice]

Maybe you could argue Dick as an outcast due to his Romani heritage. Since Romani seem to be hated wherever they go - albeit I'm not sure the extent of that in the USA compared to say Europe.

He's bullied at school in Batman Black/white but it's about him being a lower-class kid adopted by the richest man in Gotham and enrolled in a private school which I assume is attended by snobby rich kids.

As an adult, he's treated no different than any other guys, aside from the ups and downs of being a known Bruce Wayne's kid.

I've heard of Romani kids experience in the US, but it's mainly about people not knowing what Roma is, they only know Gypsy, which is a slur, so they have to introduce themselves as a Gypsy first before their friends get it, and after that the equate them, innocently, with Esmeralda from Hunchback. So it's more annoying than outright bullying.

Not as bad as Europe where I read they're actually rejected from schools.

[Tzigone]

He's bullied at school in Batman Black/white but it's about him being a lower-class kid adopted by the richest man in Gotham and enrolled in a private school which I assume is attended by snobby rich kids.

I really hate how in later decades they retcon misery/unhappiness into everyone's backgrounds. Apparently, his parents being murdered in front of him wasn't bad enough. Now he has to be bullied (despite that back when he was a kid and we actually saw him in school in the golden and silver ages, there were no such issues). And the nice-nun-orphanage prior to Bruce - had to add in him being stuck in juvenile detention facility and being beat up there. Hate that being added in. It matters to me that Dick did have a good childhood, and was well-liked. It formed the character that he was when I liked him most.

[AmiMizuno]

Everyone in Batfam has to be messed up in someway. I wouldn’t mind if it happened every now and then but it doesn’t have to be every time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Not really, circus life is a lifestyle. Moving town from town, living outside of society norms with its own community. Circus people don't wake up, clock in, then go home like its a regular 9 to 5. Circus' and carnivals are havens for outcasts. Its why the Court used it for a Talon farm.

I find it hard to believe that the Circuses would still be operating after hundreds of their performers were kidnapped (granted, over a period of years but still) or disappeared mysteriously.

The Court of Owls is a crappy 'mystery cowl' with no meaningful contrast or fowl for the Bats, and tacked onto Nightwing to give the illusion of relevance. I hope the next Crisis wipes it out.

[Tzigone]

The Court of Owls is a crappy 'mystery cowl' with no meaningful contrast or fowl for the Bats, and tacked onto Nightwing to give the illusion of relevance. I hope the next Crisis wipes it out.

I agree. Hate it. I hate what it made of Pop Haly. Don't like more recent changes with Dick's parents, either. But mostly I hate the "it's all connected" trope(#13) where everyone is connected to their villains or their lives have been arranged without their knowledge (done with Jason and Joker more recently). I mean, I'm usually okay with it when it's part of the origin. But when it's retconned in years or even decades later, it's often clunky, makes no sense, or ruins previous stories.

[Aahz]

He's bullied at school in Batman Black/white but it's about him being a lower-class kid adopted by the richest man in Gotham and enrolled in a private school which I assume is attended by snobby rich kids.

is Batman Black/white even canon?

[CPSparkles]

The Robins weren't outcasts.

Jason maybe because he was homeless
Damian maybe also for a while since he was disowned by his mother and homeless on the streets of Gotham as well before the Batfamily took him in.
Dick's Romani heritage was too late an addition and the DC world has never treated him as a Romani so I can't just apply it here because i need a reason to make him an outcast. He wasn't. The Grayson's were a very popular and successful group. Yes Bruce feared that Dick was in danger of going down a dangerous path but that doesn't mean he was an outcast.
Tim was not an outcast however you look at it or however you stretch the meaning of the word outcast it doesn't apply to Tim