Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Agent Z]

Due to their powers, Cassandra Cain, Jason Todd, and Duke Thomas should be the top 3 most dangerous Bat-Members

What powers does Jason have?

[Robanker]

What powers does Jason have?

Being a sidekick who ages Batman that somehow doesn't have editorial clamoring for his death is a pretty good one...

[SiegePerilous02]

Being a sidekick who ages Batman that somehow doesn't have editorial clamoring for his death is a pretty good one...

Jason and Tim age Bruce more than Dick ever has.
It makes no sense that he's the one with a target on his back, if there needs to be anyone at all.

[Agent Z]

Being a sidekick who ages Batman that somehow doesn't have editorial clamoring for his death is a pretty good one...

Well they already killed him once. They even almost gave him AIDS just to show you how tasteless they were.

[Sergard]

What powers does Jason have?

He has the All-Blades.
And he was trained by the All-Caste, an ancient group of warrior monks hidden in the Himalayan mountains that have been around for thousands of years, in assassination techniques and martial arts. It's a very nice concept, especially since it's one of the few that shows a more classic version of martial arts, i.e. it isn't solely focused on learning movements but also has some "spiritual" element.

[Caivu]

He has the All-Blades.
And he was trained by the All-Caste, an ancient group of warrior monks hidden in the Himalayan mountains that have been around for thousands of years, in assassination techniques and martial arts. It's a very nice concept, especially since it's one of the few that shows a more classic version of martial arts, i.e. it isn't solely focused on learning movements but also has some "spiritual" element.

Neither of those are powers.

[Zaresh]

Neither of those are powers.

Cassandra doesn't have powers either, technically, I think.
I guess @Sergard came from there with the blades because of that.
I would argue that with that in mind, Dick too sometimes seems to display some really preternatural abilities and strength. But comics are like that.

[Restingvoice]

Damian can move his liver a little bit to the left to avoid stabbing and Dick is so handsome he made a female gangster tripped off her bike when he revealed his face

I am never gonna let that go, Seeley XD

[Sergard]

This is why I really only like Dick and Damian. Jason makes things too real and adds way too much angst baggage, and him taking on someone else's kid as a partner without the parent's consent is gross and creepy and why I don't like Tims story

I'm the opposite. I need some sort of realness and I like characters I can take seriously.
I can't take Dick or Damian seriously - and I tried. Didn't work.

[kaimaciel]

Here's something that might be considered controversial: I really dislike how artists make Jason look whenever he shows up with Dick in the same comic. I get it that Dick is the pretty one and that he's lean, but they keep drawing Jason uglier and super buff which, I know how his stats claim he's around Bruce's height and weight, but when you compare Bruce and Jason in other comics, Jason is visibly smaller and leaner, especially in the Red Hood comics, so it's a bit jarring to see him suddenly so different just because he shows up next to Dick.

Fan artists can easily draw them both and still make them different, so I don't see why professionals don't.

Oh! And I liked the white streak, again, plenty of fan artists can draw Jason with a white streak and not make him look old.

[Tzigone]

Here's something that might be considered controversial: I really dislike how artists make Jason look whenever he shows up with Dick in the same comic. I get it that Dick is the pretty one and that he's lean, but they keep drawing Jason uglier and super buff which, I know how his stats claim he's around Bruce's height and weight, but when you compare Bruce and Jason in other comics, Jason is visibly smaller and leaner, especially in the Red Hood comics, so it's a bit jarring to see him suddenly so different just because he shows up next to Dick.

Fan artists can easily draw them both and still make them different, so I don't see why professionals don't.

Oh! And I liked the white streak, again, plenty of fan artists can draw Jason with a white streak and not make him look old.

I'd actually say that Jason should be buffer than Bruce and am more annoyed at him being smaller in other comics (I disagree with the notion that Bruce must be biggest and also think he's just too dang big sometimes). I've definitely seen outright scrawny Jason, but that's not my preference. The ugly thing is an issue, but then to me they've all varied a lot in looks. Not a fan of Tim shrinking when around other Bats, either (boy was that common in the '90s and early '00s - he'd suddenly look 11 when in some other comics). Consistent sizing for everyone would be great. I think kids especially get hit on that one, too.

There does seem to be a certain segment of the fanbase that wants all the "boys" (some of these are grown men) to be tiny, and I don't like that. Frankly, I often see it used as part of a larger infantilizing effort, where emotional maturity and professional capability is lessened, and they all stay with Bruce and he takes care of them (or neglects them while they wish he'd take care of them).

I particularly dislike "hierarchical" art for them, be it professional or fanart - you know, where each (former) Robin is smaller and/or leaner than his elder, with all smaller than Batman.

I like the whitestreak just for differentiation, even if there's not that strong a logical basis for it. All their features and builds change with every artist, and most have the same coloring, and without reading the dialog, it can be difficult to tell it you're looking at Bruce/Dick/Jason (even Jean Paul or very occasionally Tim depending on era).

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm the opposite. I need some sort of realness and I like characters I can take seriously.
I can't take Dick or Damian seriously - and I tried. Didn't work.

Dick and Damian can be plenty serious, especially Dick. They are also fantastical characters in a fantasy setting, but that doesn't mean they can't have realistic or nuanced aspects of their characters.

The Robin concept is a holdover from a less realistic age. The kid sidekick thing doesn't work realistically and can end very badly, but Robin is so entrenched in the Bat-mythos that you can't remove it. And as long as the tone never gets more serious than it was in the Bronze age, it can work. That's why I like Dick being the only Robin that against all odds worked out, and if we have to have a second one, Damian's the best because he comes from such an OTT and dark background that him becoming Robin is the saner alternative. But Jason getting killed makes Bruce look extremely bad, and worse he lets another 13 year old convince this grown ass man that he needs to have a kid helping him fight crime. It's a bad look and kills the fantasy in a way it can't fully recover from, but DC tried it anyway because it's all about the almighty brands and $$.

So if you want to keep having kid sidekicks and maintain the fantasy and fun tone, don't kill them. If you kill one and reality sets in, that should put an instant end to the trend because you can't continue and have your main heroes look good. So Jason's situation brings some realness but is also very unrealistic. Because you can do one or the other, but absolutely can't do both.

[Sergard]

Dick and Damian can be plenty serious, especially Dick. They are also fantastical characters in a fantasy setting, but that doesn't mean they can't have realistic or nuanced aspects of their characters.

The Robin concept is a holdover from a less realistic age. The kid sidekick thing doesn't work realistically and can end very badly, but Robin is so entrenched in the Bat-mythos that you can't remove it. And as long as the tone never gets more serious than it was in the Bronze age, it can work. That's why I like Dick being the only Robin that against all odds worked out, and if we have to have a second one, Damian's the best because he comes from such an OTT and dark background that him becoming Robin is the saner alternative. But Jason getting killed makes Bruce look extremely bad, and worse he lets another 13 year old convince this grown ass man that he needs to have a kid helping him fight crime. It's a bad look and kills the fantasy in a way it can't fully recover from, but DC tried it anyway because it's all about the almighty brands and $$.

So if you want to keep having kid sidekicks and maintain the fantasy and fun tone, don't kill them. If you kill one and reality sets in, that should put an instant end to the trend because you can't continue and have your main heroes look good. So Jason's situation brings some realness but is also very unrealistic. Because you can do one or the other, but absolutely can't do both.

We'll have to agree to disagree on basically everything you wrote.
My first answer draft was longer and more detailed but at the end I noticed that it would only lead to a useless fan discussion about personal character and story preferences.

[SiegePerilous02]

We'll have to agree to disagree on basically everything you wrote.
My first answer draft was longer and more detailed but at the end I noticed that it would only lead to a useless fan discussion about personal character and story preferences.

That's fine. I know I'm in the minority opinion on this board as far as Jason and Tim are concerned and my own biases are in play.

But personal and story preferences are basically all these fan discussions are anyway lol.

[Godlike13]

Doesn’t Jason pull magic swords out of thin air? Not that I have preference for realness one way or the other, but Jason’s story has become the most ridiculous out of all of them has it not?