Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Godlike13]

Damian being atypical is the point. He suppose to be an anti-Robin of sorts, and buck the traditional norms.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dick and Jason lost their parents to crime. Bruce, having been in their place, stepped in to provide guidance, to redirect their anger in a more healthy manner.

What's Damien's motivation?

"My dad is Batman, thus I should be Robin, then Batman."

He assumes that he's entitled to the role because of birth. Not because he actually cares about justice, or knows what its like to lose family to crime. His dad is Batman, that's why writers keep him around.

His acting like an entitled brat who believes he should be Batman, but then ending up as the sidekick to Bruce's first and #1 heir who is not blood related and coming to love him as a big brother, is what gives him an awesome arc and very rewarding character dynamic with Dick. Arguably the best one Dick has with any of the other Robins.

[marhawkman]

Damian should not exist. Worst Robin and an embarrassment to the Robin and Wayne legacy. His character development is either stagnant or reversing. Jason should be the one calling out Bruce. Damian is a kid! What the hell does he know about life! Would you people listen to a 10 year old about life? Dick and Tim as Robin never argued about adult matters. They were humble and learned to follow because they don't have the ego and pride of Damian.

Damian was raised by Talia and Ra's. Part of why he "calls out" Batman is because he's seeing it from Talia's PoV.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Damian being atypical is the point. He suppose to be an anti-Robin of sorts, and buck the traditional norms.

The problem is that rarely does the narrative buck back.

No one tells him that the mantle of the Bat isn't about blood. When he 'died', it's treated as worse than when Jason died. His main motivation remains proving equal or better than Batman, not actually helping people.

[SiegePerilous02]

The problem is that rarely does the narrative buck back.

No one tells him that the mantle of the Bat isn't about blood. When he 'died', it's treated as worse than when Jason died. His main motivation remains proving equal or better than Batman, not actually helping people.

Does he still make it all about blood that often, and if so how serious are we meant to take him?

I doubt his death was treated as much worse than Jason's, which loomed large over the Bat-mythos until his return.

[Godlike13]

The problem is that rarely does the narrative buck back.

No one tells him that the mantle of the Bat isn't about blood. When he 'died', it's treated as worse than when Jason died. His main motivation remains proving equal or better than Batman, not actually helping people.

The narrative bucks backs all the time. It’s not something that needed to be said, as he became Robin when Dick was Batman. Damian’s motivation remains proving himself in general. Wanting to be Batman is just the face Damian puts to it.

[phantom1592]

I doubt his death was treated as much worse than Jason's, which loomed large over the Bat-mythos until his return.

Well... when Jason died he was buried and then he went hunting for Joker.

When Damian died.... didn't he move heaven and Hell and storm Apocalypse itself to bring him back to life?

I can see Jason fans feeling a bit miffed that Batman didn't even bother with a lazarus pit or anything for him, but face down Darkseid for his 'real' son.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well... when Jason died he was buried and then he went hunting for Joker.

When Damian died.... didn't he move heaven and Hell and storm Apocalypse itself to bring him back to life?

I can see Jason fans feeling a bit miffed that Batman didn't even bother with a lazarus pit or anything for him, but face down Darkseid for his 'real' son.

Yeah, but this is one of the times where it really becomes impossible to not think of the out-of-universe reasons for this. Damian was resurrected ASAP because he was more popular than Jason was as Robin at the time, and his death wasn't as full of impact. Jason's death was a far bigger deal and they didn't want to undo it, and they never anticipated future creators bringing him back or move on from Tim as Robin. It also makes little sense why Lazarus pits aren't used for ANY dead hero.

Jason fans shouldn't be miffed, they wouldn't have Red Hood as he is now if Bruce had resurrected him right away

[batnbreakfast]

Well... when Jason died he was buried and then he went hunting for Joker.

When Damian died.... didn't he move heaven and Hell and storm Apocalypse itself to bring him back to life?

I can see Jason fans feeling a bit miffed that Batman didn't even bother with a lazarus pit or anything for him, but face down Darkseid for his 'real' son.

When Jason died Batgod wasn't an issue. The character had limits and the writers and editors respected them.

[Jackalope89]

Well... when Jason died he was buried and then he went hunting for Joker.

When Damian died.... didn't he move heaven and Hell and storm Apocalypse itself to bring him back to life?

I can see Jason fans feeling a bit miffed that Batman didn't even bother with a lazarus pit or anything for him, but face down Darkseid for his 'real' son.

The thing that bothers us Jason fans, is the victim blaming that came after Jason's death. He died a hero, trying to protect his bio-mom, but was remembered as a failed Robin and a kid with anger issues. What's more, before Bruce went off the Apokolips, he made Jason relive his death in order to get closer to saving Damian or something. Re-traumatizing Jason.

There's a reason why there's a growing consensus of Jason fans wanting him away from the Bats and on his own.

[Sergard]

I've said it before: The whole batfamily should be retconned out of Jason's life.
Jason lives in a different city. Jason steals the tires of someone else and winds up in Ma Gunn's school.
The story can progress from there. He meets other mentors and associates and becomes a street-level vigilante who fights crime lords and urban fantasy creatures.
Jason doesn't need any victim-blamers in his life.

[Zaresh]

And this is why DC and whoever lets cheap drama run wild over the Batman franchise since years and years ago (edit: and playing favourites) without thinking in the consequences or how that will impact the characters, have achieved: some fans want their character cut from it all. And they're not few.

Bravo.

[Godlike13]

That perception is actually to Red Hoods benefit.

[Rise]

I've said it before: The whole batfamily should be retconned out of Jason's life.
Jason lives in a different city. Jason steals the tires of someone else and winds up in Ma Gunn's school.
The story can progress from there. He meets other mentors and associates and becomes a street-level vigilante who fights crime lords and urban fantasy creatures.
Jason doesn't need any victim-blamers in his life.

Cutting off Batman is cutting off a huge part of what makes Jason the character he is today. You can't simply do that.

And I seriously, seriously hate the victim card because Jason isn't some innocent flower who done nothing wrong in his life. Yes, he was wronged and faced consequences for his actions more than any comic character I have seen (which one of the things I like about him and why many sympathy with him), but he also got his fair share of free passes. Also, the entire family wronged each others at some point or another and never apologised. Writers just simply love cheap drama and writing unnecessary conflict which they never care to deal with its fall out.

Well... when Jason died he was buried and then he went hunting for Joker.

When Damian died.... didn't he move heaven and Hell and storm Apocalypse itself to bring him back to life?

I can see Jason fans feeling a bit miffed that Batman didn't even bother with a lazarus pit or anything for him, but face down Darkseid for his 'real' son.

That just Tomasi being Tomasi. His writing tend to be way overdramatic and eventually has zero impact on anything.

Damian is a character I'm conflicted about. I actually think he is far more interesting than Dick and Tim, but his presence really hurt Batman and made him look pretty bad. I still he think he would have worked much better in AU than the main continuity.

[Zaresh]

That perception is actually to Red Hoods befit.

I dunno. I think it's hard to explain Jason's red hood without tying it to the batman and his microuniverse for the main DCU (elsewords and other media are their thing and can experiment and must experipment). I'm not so sold on the idea as my fellow threadmates (it's doable, but hard). And it robs him of his catharsis and denies his editorial history, all of it, which is something I don't like at all. Think about what could've happened to Dick if the Teen Titans success in the Bronze Age would have meant Dick wasn't a former Robin anymore because they wanted to put distance between both franchises. I don't think it would have been a good thing, would've rip Dick of his history and original reason d'etre.

They clearly have problems now with how to give each character their own standing without putting other in a worse place (understable). But I believe it is possible. They just need the right writers with the right ideas, actual planning and direction (that needs time and stability), and collaborative work, putting aside egos and different, conflicting sensibilities and tastes. It's a rocky road, but there is a road, I think.