Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Light of Justice]

Man, this whole victim blaming debate remind me of a post I see on twitter. Glad I can find it.
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[Godlike13]

How it helps him? Because I think I'm not getting your point.

It fed into his motivations as Red Hood, and still feeds into his general appeal. Its why you still see marketing titles like ‘Outlaw’ and ‘Dark Trinity’.

[Zaresh]

It’s fed into his motivations as Red Hood, and still feeds into his general appeal.

You mean, it feds his reasons to be in conflict with others because they blame him no matter what he has or hasn't done? That's the only way I could see that it would be a good thing for him, making him sympathetic (at the cost of picturing other characters under a bad light and making them be out of character. Cheap drama).

[SiegePerilous02]

Being the black sheep "bad boy" of the Bat-family and being in periodic conflict with them is a big part of Jason's gimmick and set up as Red Hood.

[Will Evans]

I liked Cassandra’s identity of Black Bat over Batgirl and Orphan.

[randomideaguy]

Mine would have to be that Batman should be depicted as a more hopeful person. I would think he would justify his "no kill" rule as giving other people a chance to redeem themselves. Then just show that in a storyline with a more sympathetic villain (Killer Croc?). A guy who won't kill the Joker under any circumstances ever has to have a superhuman belief in human redemption.

[Elmo]

Man, this whole victim blaming debate remind me of a post I see on twitter. Glad I can find it.
Screenshot_2020-05-08-00-13-05-633_com.twitter.android.jpg

ok but war games was objectively stephanie's fault, at least partly

[Elmo]

I liked Cassandra’s identity of Black Bat over Batgirl and Orphan.

can I ask why? is it just the name you like? cass to me is the quintessential Batgirl, although i'm a sucker for babs too

[Will Evans]

can I ask why? is it just the name you like? cass to me is the quintessential Batgirl, although i'm a sucker for babs too

She seemed more independent. And more grown up. I liked the costume better as well.

Just like how I prefer Dick Grayson to be Nightwing instead of Robin.

[Elmo]

She seemed more independent. And more grown up. I liked the costume better as well.

Just like how I prefer Dick Grayson to be Nightwing instead of Robin.

yeah that's fair. i'm a sucker for legacy characters who take on a role and make that role distinctly their own. but it's also just as great for them to have their own independent identities.

sometimes I think the "independent" identities can be a little dull. Bluebird and Drake are a couple examples of ones i dislike

[marhawkman]

Mine would have to be that Batman should be depicted as a more hopeful person. I would think he would justify his "no kill" rule as giving other people a chance to redeem themselves. Then just show that in a storyline with a more sympathetic villain (Killer Croc?). A guy who won't kill the Joker under any circumstances ever has to have a superhuman belief in human redemption.

Yeah that would be better than the current one.

[randomideaguy]

ok but war games was objectively stephanie's fault, at least partly

It’s Bruce’s fault for making her feel like she needed to so War Games to prove herself. He was such a tool when it came to Steph. I’d love to see a comic run where he’s teamed up with the kids he was the worst to (Jason & Steph) and forced to work together / apologize.

[Sergard]

It’s Bruce’s fault for making her feel like she needed to so War Games to prove herself. He was such a tool when it came to Steph. I’d love to see a comic run where he’s teamed up with the kids he was the worst to (Jason & Steph) and forced to work together / apologize.

Stephanie was never Robin in this continuity, so War Games didn't happen (I think). It's hard to apologize for something that Bruce can't remember.
But I definitely wouldn't say no to a team-up between Bruce and Stephanie. Preferably without Tim. Nothing against Tim, but Stephanie is more than "Tim's girlfriend."

And Jason has already forgiven Bruce in Batman: Under the Red Hood for not saving him (Not sure if Bruce has actually even blamed himself for not saving Jason.). I also can't recall if Jason has ever called anybody out for blaming him for his own death. That was never part of Jason's conflict with Bruce (I'm not even sure if he knows about the victim-blaming. That's not really a topic for some small talk. Dick: "Oh yeah, Jason. I don't know if you know but we all blame you for your own death. You know, falling for Joker's trap, the torture and being blown up - totally all your fault."). Even when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed in Batman and Robin, Jason never called Damian out on it. Actually, the next time Jason and Damian interact, Jason catches a falling Damian. It's not a "he saved his life" moment but he at least prevented Damian from being harmed. The victim-blaming isn't something that has hurt the character personally in-universe. It just makes the people who say it look bad.

And what's even the point of a "forced" apology? That doesn't feel genuine.
Especially since Bruce is already apologizing a lot, probably the most within the family - at least that's how I feel. Bruce has apologized enough. At this point, writers should just stop writing stories that make Bruce - or anyone in the family, to be honest - questionable. There has been enough batdrama, there's no need for more drama for the next ten years.

[randomideaguy]

Stephanie was never Robin in this continuity, so War Games didn't happen (I think). It's hard to apologize for something that Bruce can't remember.
But I definitely wouldn't say no to a team-up between Bruce and Stephanie. Preferably without Tim. Nothing against Tim, but Stephanie is more than "Tim's girlfriend."

And Jason has already forgiven Bruce in Batman: Under the Red Hood for not saving him (Not sure if Bruce has actually even blamed himself for not saving Jason.). I also can't recall if Jason has ever called anybody out for blaming him for his own death. That was never part of Jason's conflict with Bruce (I'm not even sure if he knows about the victim-blaming. That's not really a topic for some small talk. Dick: "Oh yeah, Jason. I don't know if you know but we all blame you for your own death. You know, falling for Joker's trap, the torture and being blown up - totally all your fault."). Even when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed in Batman and Robin, Jason never called Damian out on it. Actually, the next time Jason and Damian interact, Jason catches a falling Damian. It's not a "he saved his life" moment but he at least prevented Damian from being harmed. The victim-blaming isn't something that has hurt the character personally in-universe. It just makes the people who say it look bad.

And what's even the point of a "forced" apology? That doesn't feel genuine.
Especially since Bruce is already apologizing a lot, probably the most within the family - at least that's how I feel. Bruce has apologized enough. At this point, writers should just stop writing stories that make Bruce - or anyone in the family, to be honest - questionable. There has been enough batdrama, there's no need for more drama for the next ten years.

For Jason, I was imagining something along the lines of that part in Good Will Hunting where he keeps saying “it’s not your fault”. Steph I would make Robin for at least 3 issues so she has a total of ~one year~ as Robin. It’s some BS that she didn’t even get that far before being fridged.

I don’t think it’s a controversial opinion, but I hate the name Red Robin. I would prefer to go with the rumor that Tim was supposed to become the new Blue Beetle.

[Elmo]

Bruce was distraught over Jason, even after Lonely Place of Dying where Tim was introduced. There is that scene in Knightfall where Batman starts mercilessly beating Joker in the sewers while screaming Jason’s name.

Tim is the person who convinces Bruce not to blame himself for Jason’s death, but even still the pain lingers.