Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Spencermalley935]

It also makes Bruce look like an even bigger dick than usual, when he's bossing around the guy that raised him.

It also makes the relationship between Bruce and Alfred more than just a standard "master and servant" deal. I don't know, It's something that's just been so thoroughly baked into the mythos at this point that I just can't see them going back to the "Uncle Phillip" stuff.

[marhawkman]

It also makes the relationship between Bruce and Alfred more than just a standard "master and servant" deal. I don't know, It's something that's just been so thoroughly baked into the mythos at this point that I just can't see them going back to the "Uncle Phillip" stuff.

Yeah Alfred spends almost as much time bossing Bruce around.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce was more well adjusted as an adult in the pre-COIE continuity.

Phillip > Alfred as a guardian, apparently. Or at least he was pretty neglectful and Bruce still ended up (relatively) ok somehow, whereas Alfred was more involved and saw where it was heading and it still resulted in a hot mess of a human being. And much like the Kents being alive after Clark becomes Superman, I think Alfred being around Bruce near-constantly from the beginning robs him of a little independence. At least for a character that didn't need that setup before hand and it was retroactively applied (I'm not saying all superheroes with living parents or guardians are not independent, their stories are just differently structured).

[Restingvoice]

I never hated the character, but I've always found her to be dull and boring. She's never really felt like an important character to me no matter how hard the books try to tell us she is.

Leslie was not created to be an important character in terms of involvement with Bat-family but more like a symbol of hope in Crime Alley. Hope for Bruce that things will get better or for the criminals to have someone to care because she doesn't view them as a lost cause. I believe she works just fine being what she was, believing what she does if she stays in Crime Alley and not get involved often unless the Bat-family is injured around that area. Sort of a supporting character that shows up every once in a while.

As for Alfred being a father figure to Batman, I don't mind as long as he's not that good.

Alfred didn't sign up to be a father but a butler after being a secret agent and combat medic, leaving his own daughter behind. So he's set up as to not be a good father and that's why Bruce turned out the way he did, has morals, but still dark, because Alfred didn't know what to do with him.

I believe it was Dark Victory where he confirmed that he didn't know what to do with Bruce, but by the time Dick arrived he's become better at raising a kid.

My problem is in the hero-worship Alfred gets as a father figure. It doesn't make sense for him to be that good right off the bat. Alfred's skill as a father should develop slowly over time, the same as Bruce to the Robins.

Same with Bruce. Speaking about him bossing him around, I want him to not realize that he has a family in Alfred until much, much later. Years. I don't know who realizes it first, but I want them to keep their professionalism for the longest time, keeping their feelings a secret, until a significant event happened that makes them realize that yes, they are family. They're still gonna keep the professional facade for the most part after that, but with an unspoken understanding that they've become more than that.

[marhawkman]

Hmm which is the better baby momma for Bruce: Talia or Selena? Personally I'd say Talia.

[Rise]

Bruce was more well adjusted as an adult in the pre-COIE continuity.

Alfred has been around in Pre-crisis during the time when Bruce was well adjusted....

Getting rid of Alfred is big no no to me because he is one of the best things to happen to the mytho and I always enjoyed how unimpressed he is with Batman and his relationship with him in general.

[SiegePerilous02]

Alfred has been around in Pre-crisis during the time when Bruce was well adjusted.....

Which had nothing to do with Alfred, as Bruce didn't meet him until he was an adult. Phillip Wayne and Alice Chillton took care of him.

Alfred being the most enabling and incompetent guardian ever is a post-COIE invention. Nobody is suggesting we get rid of Alfred, just that how good the post-COIE setup is is open for debate.

[Gotham citizen]

[…]
Nobody is suggesting we get rid of Alfred, just that how good the post-COIE setup is is open for debate.

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Debate closed.

[godisawesome]

Which had nothing to do with Alfred, as Bruce didn't meet him until he was an adult. Phillip Wayne and Alice Chillton took care of him.

Alfred being the most enabling and incompetent guardian ever is a post-COIE invention. Nobody is suggesting we get rid of Alfred, just that how good the post-COIE setup is is open for debate.

It would actually work better probably to have Bruce Wayne’s guardianship years have Alfred as an initially peripheral figure, and use Phillip as the main failed parental figure who Bruce racks up his anti-social years under, then have Alfred come in when Bruce is already set on being something dangerous and unhealthy, and try and have Alfred’s military and spy history be something he uses to try and refocus and help Bruce with.

[SiegePerilous02]

417CVAiSffL._AC_.jpg

Debate closed.

Meaning we can't dislike the post-COIE setup or...?

It would actually work better probably to have Bruce Wayne’s guardianship years have Alfred as an initially peripheral figure, and use Phillip as the main failed parental figure who Bruce racks up his anti-social years under, then have Alfred come in when Bruce is already set on being something dangerous and unhealthy, and try and have Alfred’s military and spy history be something he uses to try and refocus and help Bruce with.

This could work too.

In general, despite the fact that post-COIE tried to be relatively more grounded and realistic, Bruce seemingly not having any extended family at all and being raised exclusively by his butler always seemed a little weird. I actually think he'd be a richer character with Phillip, Agatha and Van in his life, if only to highlight how he keeps them at arms length but lets Alfred and Dick in deeper.

[Spencermalley935]

I'll lay down a few more

Damian Wayne is both insufferable and redundant as a character

Ledgers Joker did not need to be in the sequel to The Dark Knight

Michael Keaton was a mediocre Bruce Wayne

Batman TAS has quite a few shortcomings in terms of portraying certain characters (Bane, Catwoman, Hugo Strange)

Black Mask is extremely overrated and there's literally nothing he can do that the Penguin can't do just as well if not better. I especially don't like his skull-face, torture fetish shtick that modern comics give him and I much prefer his original depiction.

Calendar Man and Maxie Zeus are both great additions to Batmans rogues gallery and should not be considered as jokes

Mask of the Phantasm is not the flawless Batman experience it's often made out to be

The Telltale Games are better than the Arkham Games

The Burton movies are entertaining movies that happen to feature Batman but terrible Batman movies.

Grant Morrison's Batman run is not all it's cracked up to be

Harley Quinn has become overexposed to the point where it's difficult to enjoy her

The Joker needs to take a break from live-action media for a while

The Riddler should not be portrayed as a Saw/Seven-type serial killer

The Penguin is better when he's a criminal genius with a flair for the dramatic than as a mobster/club owner

Killer Croc is not a cannibal

TDK trilogy versions of Lucius Fox and Jim Gordon are the definitive versions of those characters.

[Will Evans]

Hmm which is the better baby momma for Bruce: Talia or Selena? Personally I'd say Talia.

Talia will always be a mother for when Bruce has a son.

Selena will always be a mother for when Bruce has a daughter.

I can’t see Talia having a daughter. I can’t see Selena having a son.

[Alan2099]

The Penguin is better when he's a criminal genius with a flair for the dramatic than as a mobster/club owner

Agreed! Give the guy back his trick umbrellas and let him start commit crimes again.

[Celgress]

Agreed! Give the guy back his trick umbrellas and let him start commit crimes again.

I agree that the current Penguin sucks. He should return to his criminal ways ASAP.

[Will Evans]

I don’t know about that. I like that Penquin is the only classic Bat villain not sent to Arkham because he’s not insane.

Being a criminal genius is fine. The occasional umbrella with hidden weapon is fine.

Making him too over the top with dramatic flair is not fine. Then he’ll be declared insane too.