Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Light of Justice]

Talia will always be a mother for when Bruce has a son.

Selena will always be a mother for when Bruce has a daughter.

I can’t see Talia having a daughter. I can’t see Selena having a son.

Talia has a daughter on Injustice Universe, her name Athanasia Al-Ghul. Even though for me Athanasia just copy version of Damian before his development with Bruce and Dick (well, she is literally Damian's clone maybe), and I suspected that Taylor created Athanasia because he grow fond of Damian and want to write him on better light, but he still wants a character on his story as bashing punching bag.
On Batman Brave and Bold animation, Selena has a son, interestingly his name is Damian. Even though it turns out that was only Alfred's fanfiction. I am fairly new DC fan, is it common for Alfred to write fanfiction about his master's family life? I also recall he once wrote fanfiction about Dick as Bruce's true son (and has ginger hair). I always see him as noble refined British butler so it's kinda hilarious for me.

[Restingvoice]

Talia has a daughter on Injustice Universe, her name Athanasia Al-Ghul. Even though for me Athanasia just copy version of Damian before his development with Bruce and Dick (well, she is literally Damian's clone maybe), and I suspected that Taylor created Athanasia because he grow fond of Damian and want to write him on better light, but he still wants a character on his story as bashing punching bag.
On Batman Brave and Bold animation, Selena has a son, interestingly his name is Damian. Even though it turns out that was only Alfred's fanfiction. I am fairly new DC fan, is it common for Alfred to write fanfiction about his master's family life? I also recall he once wrote fanfiction about Dick as Bruce's true son (and has ginger hair). I always see him as noble refined British butler so it's kinda hilarious for me.

Old Golden-Silver Age Alfred was more of a funny man, the sometimes pompous butler with a funny British accent who wants to be cooler than he is, not the refined hypercompetent former MI6 combat medic butler of today.

[AmiMizuno]

So we learn who gets Bruce Wayne's estate. Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian. What about Step or Cassie than again they weren't adopted were they?

[Light of Justice]

So we learn who gets Bruce Wayne's estate. Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian. What about Step or Cassie than again they weren't adopted were they?

I don't think Steph was adopted by Bruce, and Cassie do you mean Cassandra? She should be adopted by Bruce but maybe DC retconned that.

[AmiMizuno]

Yes, Cassandra. I mean should the two be adopted or be put into other Families

[Restingvoice]

Yes, Cassandra. I mean should the two be adopted or be put into other Families

Since fans like things, the way they are, Cassandra's adopted

Steph, I forget the status of her parents. Originally her mother's good, but in New 52 she's bad too. So if both parents are unavailable I don't mind her being adopted. We have many rooms in the Manor.

[Gotham citizen]

Meaning we can't dislike the post-COIE setup or...?
[…]

Meaning on the long term the post C.O.I.E. setup should be put in a trashcan, because it has been more a harm than a benefit. Obviously we had some great stories or some good idea post-CIOE, but overall it seems to me almost everyone looks back with regret to the pre-CIOE Batman, because he was a more sane person.
For example I really love the retcon of Jason Todd's origins, because he became a more interesting character (for me at least) and I find very interesting the idea to see Bruce try to educate a boy who is too violent, rebel and reckless to become a Robin, but if I think the idea is good, I also feel the execution very dislikable; in fact the purpose of the writer was to kill Jason Todd, not to develop both the characters.

[witchboy]

Talia has a daughter on Injustice Universe, her name Athanasia Al-Ghul. Even though for me Athanasia just copy version of Damian before his development with Bruce and Dick (well, she is literally Damian's clone maybe), and I suspected that Taylor created Athanasia because he grow fond of Damian and want to write him on better light, but he still wants a character on his story as bashing punching bag.
On Batman Brave and Bold animation, Selena has a son, interestingly his name is Damian. Even though it turns out that was only Alfred's fanfiction. I am fairly new DC fan, is it common for Alfred to write fanfiction about his master's family life? I also recall he once wrote fanfiction about Dick as Bruce's true son (and has ginger hair). I always see him as noble refined British butler so it's kinda hilarious for me.

In the Silver Age there was a series of stories that were Alfred's fanfiction about Bruce's future life.
Bruce and Kathy Kane/Batwoman had a red headed son who was the new Robin and Dick took over as the new Batman.

[Coco Loco]

I'll lay down a few more

Damian Wayne is both insufferable and redundant as a character

Batman TAS has quite a few shortcomings in terms of portraying certain characters (Bane, Catwoman, Hugo Strange)


Harley Quinn has become overexposed to the point where it's difficult to enjoy her

The Riddler should not be portrayed as a Saw/Seven-type serial killer

The Penguin is better when he's a criminal genius with a flair for the dramatic than as a mobster/club owner

I agree with all of these to some degree.

I like Damian fine but he probably should have been left dead after Inc. He's an interesting character but does not make a good partner for Bruce, especially in the more street-level stories.

Harley's rarely funny.

TAS never quite got Catwoman or Riddler right IMO.

Penguin has become a mostly boring background element since going "legit". He's become a plot device that Batman jobs endlessly to get information.

Riddler needed a bit of an edge in modern times - his riddles needed to have some sort of mortal peril attached to them. But they've taken that too far by having him be a bloodthirsty serial killer.

[godisawesome]

I agree with all of these to some degree.

I like Damian fine but he probably should have been left dead after Inc. He's an interesting character but does not make a good partner for Bruce, especially in the more street-level stories.

Harley's rarely funny.

TAS never quite got Catwoman or Riddler right IMO.

Penguin has become a mostly boring background element since going "legit". He's become a plot device that Batman jobs endlessly to get information.

Riddler needed a bit of an edge in modern times - his riddles needed to have some sort of mortal peril attached to them. But they've taken that too far by having him be a bloodthirsty serial killer.

Damian is a character who I think honestly works better with almost everyone other than his father... even those family members he’s not social with and treats antagonistically.

Riddler... honestly, here I’m in a bit of a bind. BTAS only ever really did three episodes with him as the main villain... but I think those three episodes had him feel genuinely intelligent and “cool” in comparison to a lot of his other appearances. He’s better than the Arkham version who became more of an annoyance outshined by the challenges he was associated with by the development team, and tendency of stuff like King or Johns’s work to make him more saw-like loses some of his edge as well, since it often feels less like he’s an absurdly clever antagonist and more like he’s a garden variety psycho.

He could be reimagined a bit. Maybe make him a villain based entirely off information and scheming based plans - have him be a blackmailer (like Charles Augustus Milverton from Sherlock Holmes), a consulting criminal (like Moriarty in A Valley Of Fear), or just a guy who uses deductions he’s made about secrets all around Gotham as his tools. Keep him rational as much as possible, and maybe avoid having him cheat that much - a smart villain who ups his game upon discovering a worthy opponent, rather than someone who leaps to cheating.



The issue was that the BTAS crew flat out found him difficult to write because they wanted to preserve that intelligence; Glover’s voice work hit the right blend of “insufferably charming,” and they were right to make him a more rational villain overall

[marhawkman]

Damian is a character who I think honestly works better with almost everyone other than his father... even those family members he’s not social with and treats antagonistically.

Riddler... honestly, here I’m in a bit of a bind. BTAS only ever really did three episodes with him as the main villain... but I think those three episodes had him feel genuinely intelligent and “cool” in comparison to a lot of his other appearances. He’s better than the Arkham version who became more of an annoyance outshined by the challenges he was associated with by the development team, and tendency of stuff like King or Johns’s work to make him more saw-like loses some of his edge as well, since it often feels less like he’s an absurdly clever antagonist and more like he’s a garden variety psycho.

He could be reimagined a bit. Maybe make him a villain based entirely off information and scheming based plans - have him be a blackmailer (like Charles Augustus Milverton from Sherlock Holmes), a consulting criminal (like Moriarty in A Valley Of Fear), or just a guy who uses deductions he’s made about secrets all around Gotham as his tools. Keep him rational as much as possible, and maybe avoid having him cheat that much - a smart villain who ups his game upon discovering a worthy opponent, rather than someone who leaps to cheating.

The issue was that the BTAS crew flat out found him difficult to write because they wanted to preserve that intelligence; Glover’s voice work hit the right blend of “insufferably charming,” and they were right to make him a more rational villain overall

Best use of Riddler IMO was when he decided to work for GCPD and try to defeat Batman in a way no other man has ever done: being a better detective.

It's a face turn, full 180 face turn. It meant having Edward Nygma talking to cops in the police station, analyzing crime scene photos, documenting crime scenes.... I loved it. it lets Riddler be the genius mastermind and fully lean on his intellect in story telling.

[AmiMizuno]

Joker should never know how the Batfam is. I think that kills the excitement. He doesn't want to see Batman as a normal man

[Frontier]

Damian is a character who I think honestly works better with almost everyone other than his father... even those family members he’s not social with and treats antagonistically.

Riddler... honestly, here I’m in a bit of a bind. BTAS only ever really did three episodes with him as the main villain... but I think those three episodes had him feel genuinely intelligent and “cool” in comparison to a lot of his other appearances. He’s better than the Arkham version who became more of an annoyance outshined by the challenges he was associated with by the development team, and tendency of stuff like King or Johns’s work to make him more saw-like loses some of his edge as well, since it often feels less like he’s an absurdly clever antagonist and more like he’s a garden variety psycho.

He could be reimagined a bit. Maybe make him a villain based entirely off information and scheming based plans - have him be a blackmailer (like Charles Augustus Milverton from Sherlock Holmes), a consulting criminal (like Moriarty in A Valley Of Fear), or just a guy who uses deductions he’s made about secrets all around Gotham as his tools. Keep him rational as much as possible, and maybe avoid having him cheat that much - a smart villain who ups his game upon discovering a worthy opponent, rather than someone who leaps to cheating.



The issue was that the BTAS crew flat out found him difficult to write because they wanted to preserve that intelligence; Glover’s voice work hit the right blend of “insufferably charming,” and they were right to make him a more rational villain overall

I think there's a degree of necessity for the Riddler to be insufferable because of his ego and insatiable need to prove he's smarter then everyone else. I feel like Wally Wingert's manic and arrogant intellectual Riddler made for the perfect antagonist to make you do a bunch of small-scale side-missions just to see Batman finally put him in his place and get him to finally shut up .

[godisawesome]

I think there's a degree of necessity for the Riddler to be insufferable because of his ego and insatiable need to prove he's smarter then everyone else. I feel like Wally Wingert's manic and arrogant intellectual Riddler made for the perfect antagonist to make you do a bunch of small-scale side-missions just to see Batman finally put him in his place and get him to finally shut up .

The thing for me is that it makes him feel more like an irritant than an opponent - insufferable but fun to watch/see Batman opposed against is what I like for Riddler, whereas a Riddler who is consistently outsmarted at his own game by Batman like clockwork *and* can’t successfully cheat against him on his own terms feels kind of pathetic. At least BTAS Riddler forced Batman to cheat against him, by hijacking his labyrinth’s tech in their first meeting, then having Robin and others try to outflank Riddler’s programs while simultaneously applying lateral thinking to overwhelm Riddler’s VR program. That keeps Riddler smart and intimidating while still being insufferable; he’s better as a dungeon master who’s been genuinely thrown by a clever player bending and breaking the rules rather than someone so predictable that he relies on railroading stuff his way.

Though a lot of my distaste’s with the Arkham Riddler can be summarized in two words:

Riddler Trophies.

I hate Riddler trophies. Not the 10 or so across the three games I’ve played that were genuinely fun to get. Not the Riddles, which are great blendings of Easter Eggs with trivia and puns. I’m talking the hundreds of fetch quest items I have to waste my time on to get the necessary completion rate the game needs.

[Spencermalley935]

Best use of Riddler IMO was when he decided to work for GCPD and try to defeat Batman in a way no other man has ever done: being a better detective.

It's a face turn, full 180 face turn. It meant having Edward Nygma talking to cops in the police station, analyzing crime scene photos, documenting crime scenes.... I loved it. it lets Riddler be the genius mastermind and fully lean on his intellect in story telling.

The Riddler never worked for the GCPD, He was a private detective who worked for whoever payed him. That was a fun, little change to the status quo but obviously it could never last forever.