Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[dietrich]

Well, he does as Batman, by working with Jim Gordon and helping Jim root out corruption. I imagine their partnership also allows Batman to effectively subdue criminals and work within the law to the extent where they can effectively catch crooks.

And I imagine Bruce Wayne probably contributes to the police in some ways, through either grants or donations as part of his numerous charity works.

I always wonder instead of making and training robins and other such sidekicks what if Bruce founded a crack team of Lawyers, scientists and social workers. Obviously he doesn't have a problem catching criminals. He manages that just fine where he fails is in the keeping em locked up rehabilitation bit.
Imagine it:

Tim could be the Incorruptible DA working to get and keep the criminals lockup and in his spare time he can partner with Damian and Harper to build a hi tech bobby trapped inescapable jail/ asylum.
Dick could come home, get a job on the force [fighting corruption from within] and Nightwinging on the side.
Jason would make a ruthless jailer. i'm sure he can think up some inventive ways to keep the inmates from misbehaving.
Babs since she was once a member of congress could run for mayor and end all corruption.
Alfred, Leslie and Steph can run the numerous orphanages and rehabilitation centres.
Damian can Robin
Cass can Batgirl.

[bat_girl_cc]

It`s a bit amazing how all you talk about Cass is how good a figther she gets to be and thus how she earns bigger plotlines that way.

In truth, whether you like her or not, Barara will always be the more relevant Batgirl over either Steph or Cass. It got nothing to do with how many people x character can beat.

Yes, i don't like it, and i now that Babs will always be the number 1 Batgirl in the comics and specially out-side of the comics medium...but that has nothing to do with her worthyness as a crime-fighter..."In truth", wether you like it or not, DC Comics higher-ups don't like Cass in the slightest, they have their own head-cannon's on which Babs is Batgirl forever regardless if there's someone out there bettter than her, and thus Cass will never be used in any media until there's new blood in charge, and the only reason why Cass got brought back was because of the new Bat-group director "Mark Doyle" is a fan of her, and you can bet that he had a (big) "voice" on it.

[bat_girl_cc]

If she's so great, why doesn't she get any use outside of the comics? The truth is that she didn't add much to the role except for being a good fighter, which is why she didn't last long. Even her kewl costume wasn't even her own,

The reason its pretty obvious, why it happens that the coolest and most badass Batgirl there is and that there ever was, doesn't get even some small exposition out-side of comics, while a much lamer Batgirl gets to be in movies and games? its because the people in charge want it that way, but its sad because if they really cared about business, both Cass, and Steph and many other characters should already had appeared in movies, games, etc, because people say: "oh, nobody knows them..." and nobody ever will, if they get no exposition...only that way can DC win money big time with their characters, actually they should have been long fired because its obvious that they either don't know the first thing about running a company, or they don't care, as long as their favourite characters get to appear.
Another proof of that (besides ruining their own characters) is that it toke them a huge money-loss with the New 52 fiasco and then DC-you, for Rebirth to happen.
Geoff Jhons seems to know what's best for business, but i'm afraid that he's to close to Dan Didio and the rest of his gang to ever do things right.

[bat_girl_cc]

Now, for a Cass movie to happen, it would be tricky for several reasons...
1) there's already more than one origin of Cass and one contradicts the other...
2) Cassandra's origin is both awesome and compeling, but it would take some "screen time" for it to make it good, and we know that a Cass-solo-movie isn't going to happen, because it wouldn't sell, only characters like "Batman" or "Superman" have enough fans already to sustain a solo-movie, its not about being good or bad, its about DC not even trying it, at best we would get a Batman vs Batgirl movie similar to Batman vs Robin, but this time instead of the characters joining forces to fight some foe, i imagine that they would tell Cassandra's story and they would fight Lady Shiva and some other League Of Assassins members in the process, but honestly, after watching Damian_son_of_batman who IMO suposedly should have been easier to make , i really don't trust DC to give Cass justice, but thats another story...
3) Damian came after Cass, way after actually, Damian was introduced in the comics in 2006 about the same time that Cassandra's 73-issue-long Batgirl solo series ended, just to give you an idea...but the fact is that because he's the "son of Batman" DC saw in him a cash-cow, and i got to admit, it was smart move of them, but this creates a problem, even tho Cass and Damian's origin are different (Cass was original meant to become Ra's all ghul perfect body-guard, while Damian was to become the leader of the league) the fact is that Damian shares some of the same "themes" with Cass origin-wise, (child-daughter-of-assassins, rebells, and now tries to be good...which again, Damian "stole" from Cass, and he was doing a "redemption road" on his solo book last year, while Cass did it like more than a decade ago...) but fact remains, that a movie with Cass while essentially different and much more badass, it would inevitably revisit some of the same already explored themes that were explored with Damian.
All in all, a Cass movie would always be worth it, even if i don't trust DC to do it right even if they were up to it, but this discussion its kinda of a lost-cause because it won't happen, not until new people get to be in charge, at least.

[dietrich]

DC had a strong preference for Wally, until they didn't. Babs being the only Batgirl the public knows doesn't matter much if the powers that be think that there's money to be made elsewhere. Remember, Cass was the first Batgirl with her own series, and it's still the longest unbroken Batgirl series around.

As for Damien, he really doesn't fly Cass' colors. If anything, they act as if the nature vs. nurture debate with him is settled since being Batman's son automatically entitles him to be Robin (somehow), his ability to function in society is hampered only by his ego and while he might technically be bi-racial, he still somehow manages to look like all the other Robins that came before him. In addition to that, he has no real redemption arc.

At best, Damien is Cass-lite

Yes but I don't see that love affair ending anytime soon not with the killing joke and the fact that when the had to pick a version of batgirl to introduce in their new animated universe they still chose Babs.
Steph was an extra on YJ 2 so she might appear in YJ3 but as spoiler.
Of course something drastic could happen but I wouldn't hold my breathe.

Not really the new teen titans book has him learning how to be good. In fact the book heavily stresses the awful conditions of his upbringing the fact that he has bad blood, that he never had a choice growing up but once he did once he was exposed to his fathers environment he chose to walk that path.
Yes he felt he was entitled to the mantle and yes he was more than combat qualified to hold the position but he still had to earn it ie prove that he was worthy.
He's inability to function socialy is a result of his warped upbringing and childhood. His ego is the result of his upbringing.
They are depicting him as visually ethnic in some books like TT, Robin son of batman Gotham Academy etc but yeah in most versions he is still visually white. There are minorities who look white though.
He did have a Redemption arc Robin Son of Batman. The entire book is all about his redemption. The writers even spell it out by declaring that the R on his robin costume now stands for Redemption.
Batman Inc 8 was also his redemption Anyone who willingly and bravely gives their life against ridiculous odds for others is redeemed in my eyes.

I wouldn't say so though I believe Cass is the better fighter unfortunately for Cass Damian is currently working all her niche angles right now. To the General Public attributes all those things to Damian cos they got to know him 1st.

He is the bi-racial ass kicker, struggling to overcome the 'nature vs. nurture' aspects his abusive upbringing resulted in. He has trouble expressing
himself however he is already very well trained that it doesn't raise the ethical question of 'Why is he training an underage kid to fight alongside him?'

[Carabas]

Now, for a Cass movie to happen, it would be tricky for several reasons...
1) there's already more than one origin of Cass and one contradicts the other...

Same goes for Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man, Thor...

2) Cassandra's origin is both awesome and compeling, but it would take some "screen time" for it to make it good

That is true for all superhero origins. At least she has an origin story. Not all Batgirls can say that.

and we know that a Cass-solo-movie isn't going to happen, because it wouldn't sell, only characters like "Batman" or "Superman" have enough fans already to sustain a solo-movie,

Guardians Of The Galaxy, Ant-Man, Suicide Squad... Comicbook popularity does not matter in these things. All it takes is a movie maker who wants to tell a Cassandra Cain story.

I have read 3), but can't work out what you're trying to say there.

[Agent Z]

Says the writers themselves and the story, it's called Batman Under the Hood and Superman vs Elite These along with KC are stories about Supes and Bats not jobbers who were set up to be squashed.
Now if Vigilante and Ragman are squashed to make Supes/Bats look good then I'll agree with you and there are instances of those but squashing Magog is like kicking Jokers ass, they're wrong, they're created to be wrong, that's the intent of the writer, and that's what I always go with, same goes for Judas Contract, if Terra is a villain then she's a villain her age be damned, unless you know better.

I have read all stories with Cass thank you, her disability was only a problem in NML and the early issues of her series but near the end of the first year of her series and onwards she's been communicating just fine. Even the new version says words that she wants to say, if she can easily convey her intentions and follow orders then there's no disability regardless of the word count. Even Bizarro and Doomsday are more disable than Cass. Jericho is another example and a relevant one here, he talks when he occupies someone's body, he cant speak otherwise, writers actually treat his disability like a disability.

Yeah that's a load right there. A character's position as the protagonist is not an automatic defense for them. That's Twilight style of crappy writing. Or are you telling me if some writer wrote a Batman or Superman story decrying vaccination and used a cartoonish straw man to represent their opposition you'd just accept it?

Nope. Cass only spoke with extreme difficulty with people she was comfortable with as seen in the ellipses in her speech. What the books didn't do was present her as stupid or slow thinking because of her disability. Her taking orders does not negate that.

[dietrich]

The reason its pretty obvious, why it happens that the coolest and most badass Batgirl there is and that there ever was, doesn't get even some small exposition out-side of comics, while a much lamer Batgirl gets to be in movies and games? its because the people in charge want it that way, but its sad because if they really cared about business, both Cass, and Steph and many other characters should already had appeared in movies, games, etc, because people say: "oh, nobody knows them..." and nobody ever will, if they get no exposition...only that way can DC win money big time with their characters, actually they should have been long fired because its obvious that they either don't know the first thing about running a company, or they don't care, as long as their favourite characters get to appear.
Another proof of that (besides ruining their own characters) is that it toke them a huge money-loss with the New 52 fiasco and then DC-you, for Rebirth to happen.
Geoff Jhons seems to know what's best for business, but i'm afraid that he's to close to Dan Didio and the rest of his gang to ever do things right.

Can I ask does it have to be batgirl seems to me that we could have Babs as Batgirl, Cass as Orphan and Steph as Spolier. What if Cass and Steph were given representation in mass media as under current mantles. Say if Orphan and Spoiler popped up in YJ or GO!

[bat_girl_cc]

Can I ask does it have to be batgirl seems to me that we could have Babs as Batgirl, Cass as Orphan and Steph as Spolier. What if Cass and Steph were given representation in mass media as under current mantles. Say if Orphan and Spoiler popped up in YJ or GO!

No, i doesn't have to be Batgirl, but IMO it would have been better with Babs as Oracle, Cass as Batgirl, and Steph as Spoiler.
Cass and Steph won't appear on either of those shows, lol, thats just people who as much power in DC as me or you, speculating on the internet foruns.

[bat_girl_cc]

Besides, i wasn't talking about only Cass and Steph, but all characters! its clear that DC doesn't know how to do things, or doesn't want to for some reason...DC has ALOT of great characters that could earn them ALOT of money, its just that those ideas were never tried...

[Frontier]

Yeah that's a load right there. A character's position as the protagonist is not an automatic defense for them. That's Twilight style of crappy writing. Or are you telling me if some writer wrote a Batman or Superman story decrying vaccination and used a cartoonish straw man to represent their opposition you'd just accept it?

No, I'd just think that's terrible characterization and bad writing .

[Agent Z]

Same goes for Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man, Thor...


That is true for all superhero origins. At least she has an origin story. Not all Batgirls can say that.


Guardians Of The Galaxy, Ant-Man, Suicide Squad... Comicbook popularity does not matter in these things. All it takes is a movie maker who wants to tell a Cassandra Cain story.

I have read 3), but can't work out what you're trying to say there.

I believe what she means is that since Damian and Cass share similar themes a Cass movie would be considered a rehash of Damian. Especially now that Damian had gotten some out old comic exposure in the animated movies.

[Carabas]

I believe what she means is that since Damian and Cass share similar themes a Cass movie would be considered a rehash of Damian. Especially now that Damian had gotten some out old comic exposure in the animated movies.

Hmm.
I'd say all Batman-related characters share a huge amount of similar themes.

[Agent Z]

No, I'd just think that's terrible characterization and bad writing .

How do you think I feel about Kingdom Come, What's So Funny and Under The Red Hood

[dietrich]

No, i doesn't have to be Batgirl, but IMO it would have been better with Babs as Oracle, Cass as Batgirl, and Steph as Spoiler.
Cass and Steph won't appear on either of those shows, lol, thats just people who as much power in DC as me or you, speculating on the internet foruns.

You never know Steph was in YJ2. DC could use these shows to feature / introduce non A list heroes to the GA. I mean it doesn't have to be a big role just cameo's or tiny background roles just to get them in public consciousness. those mini DC shorts should feature these characters who so far are only known to comic readers. That would be a good way to get them off the ground introduced then take from there.