Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Marik Swift]

Can't agree on Barbara. If she knows Dick's (and she should, IMO), then she should know Bruce's simply because it logical. I really hate the post-COIE or more modern versions where Bruce knows Barbara's identity and she doesn't know his. I hate the power imbalance - a lot. I'm okay with it for Steph, as I feel like that power imbalance and lack of regard for Steph's wants (and her in general), etc. is pretty relevant for her character and her history. That's the way it was from the start, unlike with Barbara.

Have to admit, I am somewhat an old-school fan of heroes trusting each other (and them not turning bad), too, though. And of Batman when he was less paranoid. Not that he'd tell them right away or anything. But that he wouldn't mind them knowing after a few years of collaboration, as with the JL.

I mean, logically everybody in Gotham should know Bruce is Batman, so wouldn't really say her knowing Dick means she'd know Bruce.

That said, I would say I think Barbara should know, but only after several years. Like I feel like he should have tried to tell her when she was Oracle (as that was definitely the best point to tell her), but at that point she had matured so much that it didn't matter to her and she opted not to know.

Lol, like in a geeky way I can see her rationalising it like a computer as keeping the firewall/his identity strong by not letting too many people know, including herself . Something which I think he would respect her even further for and tell her he'd gladly tell her whenever she pleases.

[Micael]

I agree with this, also will add that Damian should be revealed to not be Bruce's son and the identity of Batman should not be a mantle to be passed around, it should end with Bruce. Also the bat symbol should not be something that anyone can just claim and slap on their chest.

What does revealing Damian to not be Bruce's son accomplish? They somewhat attempted that with the Batman vs Deathstroke story line and thank god they didn't actually go trough with it. Damian not being Bruce's child would kill the character.

[Forlorn]

What does revealing Damian to not be Bruce's son accomplish? They somewhat attempted that with the Batman vs Deathstroke story line and thank god they didn't actually go trough with it. Damian not being Bruce's child would kill the character.

That and it would have made Talia being retconned into a rapist even more stupid than it already was.

[Tzigone]

That said, I would say I think Barbara should know, but only after several years. Like I feel like he should have tried to tell her when she was Oracle (as that was definitely the best point to tell her), but at that point she had matured so much that it didn't matter to her and she opted not to know.

The idea that Barbara wasn't mature enough at the start is just a flat-out insult to Barbara to me, and completely unacceptable. Then again, I like her debuting as an adult, as she originally did.

I also don't see as more mature to choose not to know, either. It's a choice - knowing and not knowing both have advantages and risks to all of them.

[Marik Swift]

The idea that Barbara wasn't mature enough at the start is just a flat-out insult to Barbara to me, and completely unacceptable. Then again, I like her debuting as an adult, as she originally did.

I also don't see as more mature to choose not to know, either. It's a choice - knowing and not knowing both have advantages and risks to all of them.

Actually, I prefer her debuting as an adult as well (a few post ago I said she should be 7-8 years older than Dick).

I get what you mean though since I think Barbara is easily the most mature member of the Batfam, even more than Bruce. I don't necessarily see it as a matter of maturity though, I just feel like the Batman's identity should be maintained as much as possible simply out of practicality.

There are ways to get information out of even the most responsible and strong willed people like Barbs, so I don't see Bruce sharing his identity just cause of trust or maturity level (like even within the league I feel like only Superman and Wonder Woman should know). The same applies to most superheroes in general, with Batman in particular being especially cautious who he shares with since his identity is an actual necessity unlike other heroes with powers.

[The tall man]

What does revealing Damian to not be Bruce's son accomplish? They somewhat attempted that with the Batman vs Deathstroke story line and thank god they didn't actually go trough with it. Damian not being Bruce's child would kill the character.

That's exactly the point, this father/son dynamic only benefits Damian not Bruce, he gets nothing out of the relationship. Bruce is made out to be the worst person, father, character in relation to Damian. Damian gets the perks of being the "son of Batman", he gets immediate unearned relevance and status by simply having the Wayne name. But at least you acknowledge that severing that familial bond would destroy Damian as a character. Many Damian fans act like Bruce doesn't matter, that Damian would be better off without him and they don't even want him showing up in Damian's solo. However they also don't want Damian removed from the bat mythos. They want all the recognition and relevance that comes with being closely tied to Batman's world but they don't want Batman himself. I guess subconsciously they know Damian would be destroyed without being Batman's son. It must suck loving a character but hating to acknowledge what makes him relevant.

[Marik Swift]

Damian is my favorite Robin, but I agree Damian's existence severely undermined the other Robins (especially Tim). I feel the same way about Jon Kent.

The concept of the Robins was that Bruce was showing that "blood does not define family".

[Light of Justice]

Damian is my favorite Robin, but I agree Damian's existence severely undermined the other Robins (especially Tim). I feel the same way about Jon Kent.

The concept of the Robins was that Bruce was showing that "blood does not define family".

The problem is, most fans forget that Damian didn't get Robin title from Bruce. Batman actually rejected him. Only after Batman (temporary) death and Damian was roaming wildly on Gotham tried to prove himself, Dick took him and made Robin title function as it should, a way for lost children to be guided under Batman.
But I can't blame fans for forgeting that, since even on Damian's own title Dick's role to give Damian Robin was replaced by Bruce. Animation adaptations also partly responsible for that misconception.

[adrikito]

Damian is my favorite Robin, but I agree Damian's existence severely undermined the other Robins (especially Tim). I feel the same way about Jon Kent.

The concept of the Robins was that Bruce was showing that "blood does not define family".

I love Lois but... I think that the Superman/Lex "son" thing with KON worked better..

Lois could have had a DAUGHTER making her a Supergirl and with that... Kara could finally become in one Superwoman. and Stop looking as one Super Rookie after all these decades.

[marhawkman]

The idea that Barbara wasn't mature enough at the start is just a flat-out insult to Barbara to me, and completely unacceptable. Then again, I like her debuting as an adult, as she originally did.

I also don't see as more mature to choose not to know, either. It's a choice - knowing and not knowing both have advantages and risks to all of them.

Like if someone telepathically interrogates you. Which has happened in DC comics more than once. I mean it happens more often in Marvel, since powerful telepaths have been in seemingly EVERY incarnation of the Xmen, and even Xavier is like "I don't enjoy reading your mind like an open book, but..... lesser of two evils" Then he makes a copy of your entire life history just in case he missed something important. Xavier's idea of being nice about it is to NOT erase your memory in the process.

DC has a variety of telepaths too. White Martians for example..... Hmm don't some versions of Starro read your mind while you're possessed? So the big starfish knows your past? Oh and Maxwell Lord. Yeah... that guy. (among others)

I love Lois but... I think that the Superman/Lex "son" thing with KON worked better..

Lois could have had a DAUGHTER making her a Supergirl and with that... Kara could finally become in one Superwoman. and Stop looking as one Super Rookie after all these decades.

In some versions Lois does. There was one set like 20 years after the main books where Lois and Clark had two children one of which was Supergirl... and the other acted like Lex Luthor for... reasons... that are complicated... and involve Gold Kryptonite.

[Micael]

That and it would have made Talia being retconned into a rapist even more stupid than it already was.

That wasn't a retcon as the story where Morrison took the idea from wasn't canon.

[Aahz]

Looking at the announced "Robin and Batman" series, I really think they should do something like this with Jason Todd.

He is out of the Robins the only one that never got at least a Robin Mini series, or back up stories series, and even in the pages of the main Batman comic he didn't got post crisis much focus outside of his origin story and Death in the Family. (The pre crisis version got imo more focus).

While I'm add it, I think the Jasons Origin Story, Death in the Family and Tim's Origin story, should also redone at some point as mini or OGN by some top level creative teams.

The original versions are all kind of meh.

[adrikito]

DC has a variety of telepaths too. White Martians for example..... Hmm don't some versions of Starro read your mind while you're possessed? So the big starfish knows your past? Oh and Maxwell Lord. Yeah... that guy. (among others)In some versions Lois does. There was one set like 20 years after the main books where Lois and Clark had two children one of which was Supergirl... and the other acted like Lex Luthor for... reasons... that are complicated... and involve Gold Kryptonite.

WOW. Sounds interesting.

[Arctic Cyclist]

That wasn't a retcon as the story where Morrison took the idea from wasn't canon.

No, it was a retcon as the orginal Hush story has a Talia mentioning that Selina obviously hasn't slept with Bruce, and Bruce's inner monologue in a different issue contemplating that they are "complicated" and heavily implying that yes, they had had sex on more than one occasion including issue 0 of "No Man's Land" which had a classic fade to black scene of them making out in bed followed by Bruce's calling Lucius to say a girl got his groove back on.

Those are just the two most blatant examples from the 90s and 00s, there were more, including several from the 80s where the blowjob euphemisms abound between the two of them.

Plastic Man of May 2007 even had Superman calling Talia Bruce's baby mama, Damian appears in September of the same year.

[marhawkman]

No, it was a retcon as the orginal Hush story has a Talia mentioning that Selina obviously hasn't slept with Bruce, and Bruce's inner monologue in a different issue contemplating that they are "complicated" and heavily implying that yes, they had had sex on more than one occasion including issue 0 of "No Man's Land" which had a classic fade to black scene of them making out in bed followed by Bruce's calling Lucius to say a girl got his groove back on.

Those are just the two most blatant examples from the 90s and 00s, there were more, including several from the 80s where the blowjob euphemisms abound between the two of them.

Plastic Man of May 2007 even had Superman calling Talia Bruce's baby mama, Damian appears in September of the same year.

Heh, and Batman: TAS, where Ra's introduces Talia to Bruce... because Ra'is wants an heir. I mean.... It's as non-subtle as you can be without Talia removing her clothes.