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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Step View Post
    New 52 Harley's characterisation has been pretty bad for the entirety of the new 52, the only one who got her right recently was Tom Taylor in Injustice, and that wasn't even new 52!

    Her solo book isn't funny either, and the only reason I'm sticking around is cause she's my fav DC character and that might not even be enough for long.

    I find the women of the batfam are far more interesting than the men in general.

    Solo batman is not interesting to me.

    I LOVE the Poison Ivy/Harley Quinn friendship but it doesn't make sense in the New 52, what with Poison Ivy being more of an anti-hero and Harley being more of a straight villain, either Ivy should influence Harley to be better or they should just break it off, hell they were fighting on opposite sides in the Gothtopia story arc, Harley's group captured Ivy, how are they still buddy-buddy?
    Exactly. Their relationship does not make any sense.

  2. #17
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    Not trying to pick a fight here, but could you explain this a bit better just so I know where you're coming from
    She had a cool look, and on the surface the whole innocent silent ninja girl thing has an appeal, but in dept i just don't think she is a very compelling character. Her personality is too subtle, and her abilities make her undefeatable in the Batman setting. Undefeatable characters tend to be boring and limited, as i found Cass to be. Its hard for them to be physically challenged or there to be a credible struggle when a character is just so naturally good that they can beat anybody.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 05-27-2014 at 05:14 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    She had a cool look, and on the surface the whole innocent silent ninja girl thing has an appeal, but i just don't think she is a very compelling character. Her personality is too subtle, and her abilities make her undefeatable in the Batman setting. Undefeatable characters tend to be boring and limited, as i found Cass to be. Its hard for them to be physically challenged or there to be a credible struggle when a character is just so naturally good that they can beat anybody.
    See this is funny because I was under the impression that martial arts was pretty much all she could do. She wasn't good at reading or writing, didn't have great detective skills, was terribly socially inept etc. Seems she had more weaknesses than strengths sometimes. Anyway thanks for the reply, but we'll have to agree to disagree

  4. #19
    Mighty Member nepenthes's Avatar
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    All Star Batman is the one and only origin of Dick Grayson

    Dark Knight Strikes Again is the most fun ever had in Batman comics

    Scumachers Batman & Robin > The Dark Knight Rises

    Batman should be shown to have a better diet - he should be constantly devouring protein bars on rooftops and mixing up shakes from tap water in peoples kitchens.

    Barbara Gordon can be Oracle AND Batgirl at the same time - see Batman Incorporated #8.

    Kate Kane and Maggie Sawyer should NOT be married....just yet.

    The Joker should be cured with neural surgery and hidden away from the world in the Batcave as Alfred's new apprentice.

    The Batman editors and DC in general should follow the lead of whats happening outside the comics more closely. In terms of content, style, marketing, cross promotion, everything. Comics are far too insular


    Quote Originally Posted by brandnewfan View Post
    Tim Drake should be gay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    A Batman who gets on well with - and has an honest, caring and friendly relationship with - the Bat Family is a more interesting and engaging character than Solo Batman or Untrusting Batman.

    Dick Grayson has a more interesting dynamic with each and every other member of the Family than Bruce does.
    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    You can never have too many members of the Batfamily, and really the only thing that should be harped on an emphasized should be the little details that define their differences and their various levels of compassion and antagonism between each other:

    Cass Cain is easily the most awesome and creative Batgirl, Stephanie Brown is the most fun, and Babs should be the most dangerous but the decision to neuter her computer skills demotes the character below all her male peers. The latter should be rectified and all three should work together to create a huge geek-girl faction of comic readers united under the Bat's banner. I need comics to suggest to my sister, dagnabit!
    Agreed!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    See this is funny because I was under the impression that martial arts was pretty much all she could do. She wasn't good at reading or writing, didn't have great detective skills, was terribly socially inept etc. Seems she had more weaknesses than strengths sometimes. Anyway thanks for the reply, but we'll have to agree to disagree
    But that one hook was often a large problem. Because h2h was made to be her one godlike gift, writers would consistently have more powerful opponents attempt to defeat her with physical combat... and predictably or unrealistically lose.

    You had characters like Slade with abilities above peak human, but more importantly, who preps and executes strategies on par with Batman and who is a difficult villain for hero teams on a good day, suddenly decide "Oh, I'm just going to walk up to Batgirl with h2h combat. That'll work out well." The writing around her got lazy.

    Not to say Cass or non-powered heroes can never win, but street level fighters need to use clever tactics if the plot calls in some heavy hitters. By the time Cass was written to hatch a complex plan, she was unfortunately being written as a villain post-OYL.

    ...So yeah, I guess chalk me up as having the unpopular opinion that Cass was an uninspiring read beyond her first two years. Also, illiteracy is not a character flaw, it is a character conflict which can be written for development or succeeded over. Watching Cass slowly learn to read would have given her book more depth than being telepathically healed. Another example of lazy writing that robbed her of continued interest.

  6. #21
    Scarlet Spider neonrideraryeh's Avatar
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    I find the Bat Family more interesting than Batman. To me, Batman is defined by his allies and how he has been a mentor to them. Without them, he wouldn't be as interesting to me. Babs, Dick, Tim and Jason are all much higher on my favourites list than Bruce himself is.

    Babs is best as Batgirl and should always be Batgirl instead of Oracle. I'm glad her being Oracle before because Barbara still got to be involved in comics, but really they shouldn't have have had be shot in the first place. I'm glad she's back to being Batgirl like she should be. Like Bruce said to her recently "You were always meant to be Batgirl". Though I do like to see her computer skills shown off some more.
    The past Batgirls are better with their own identities like Spoiler and Black Bat. Though honestly I'm not too big a Cass fan because it gets a bit silly when she's like totally unbeatable and it gets more "Batgod" than Batman himself really.

    Tim's New 52 outfit is great. The old outfit was pretty bad, with that silly cowl without ears that made him look a bald guy haha.

    Nolan Batman movies were pretty bad and I couldn't take his voice seriously. Also whitewashing Bane is stupid and takes away what makes him who he is.

    Dark Knight Returns is super overrated. Frank doesn't have an ounce of understanding of Batman.

    I think the Joker's story has run its course for now and he shouldn't come back for a long time.

    I want to see more Detective stories where Batman has to solve a mystery rather than "oh it's Scarecrow again, he's right here to fight me" stories without much mystery.

    Damian shouldn't come back for a long long time, because his death would be cheapened by it.
    Favourite DC Characters: Supergirl, Pandora, Red Lantern Bleez, Larfleeze
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    "There are two main times when comic book fans gripe: When something changes and when something stays the same."
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  7. #22
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    Jason Todd is a better villain or deadman than hero.
    Red Robin is a terrible name, as is the character.
    Barbara Gordon was better as Oracle than Batgirl.
    Dick Grayson should be Batman, and Damian should be his Robin.
    Bruce should just find happiness already, I pity that guy
    Too many sidekicks/heroes in Gotham.
    Blue Bird, her brother, Jason Todd, Batwoman's side kick should al die. The Batman is losing his originality.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Morrison's and Snyder's run are overrated and good at best, mediocre at worst.

    Tomasi is a mediocre writer that it needs to go.

    Damian should've never died.

    Eternal is boring and dumb.

    Cassandra is better on the comic book limbo.ç

    I really enjoy writers trying new thing with Jason and keeping him he farthest away from Gotham as possible.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Robin mantle has to be only for a male character.

    Nightwing is not a light version of Batman, i'll miss him so much in the New52.

    Unveil to the world Dick's secret ID is the worst thing they could do to the character. I can (hardly) bear the spy stuff, but why subtract him of his secret ID? I'll never understand.

    Jason Todd should be dead for good.

    Harley Quinn who? Never liked her and i don't care what she does.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Oracle is a better character then Batgirl for several reasons.
    1. She's a more unique character. Between Huntress, Batwoman and Spoiler how many Female Batman Analogues do we need?
    2. With the exception of Batgirl year 1 all the good Barbera Gordon stories are Oracle stories.
    3. Oracle plays a more important role in the DCU then Batgirl ever will. Putting her back in costume is almost a demotion.

  11. #26
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Exactly what about Huntress and Spoiler are Batman analogues, though? Saying every vigilante is a Batman analogue simply because they fight crime without powers isn't fair.

    That said, I agree about Oracle being a better character and persona for Babs than Batgirl.

  12. #27

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    This thread is a good place to vent frustration -- but any posts that are seen as insults to fans of certain characters, will be deleted.

  13. #28
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABH-1979 View Post
    This thread is a good place to vent frustration -- but any posts that are seen as insults to fans of certain characters, will be deleted.
    For the record, it wasn't my intention to flame-bait or anything. I've just realized on other boards - Spider-Man and the X-Books, specifically - that these kinds of threads seem to be good for discussion and helps to get to know another poster better, what their likes and dislikes are. The intent wasn't to bring about any in-fighting.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by icantstandthisindecision View Post
    For the record, it wasn't my intention to flame-bait or anything. I've just realized on other boards - Spider-Man and the X-Books, specifically - that these kinds of threads seem to be good for discussion and helps to get to know another poster better, what their likes and dislikes are. The intent wasn't to bring about any in-fighting.
    No, I know -- this thread is exactly what it should be "Controversial Batfamily Opinions", and I have no issue with that.

    Saying why you dislike 'X' is fine (as long as it's done in a civil manner), but anything that sounds like a dig at fans of 'X', will be removed. That's all I'm saying.

  15. #30
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    The new 52 should only have Batman and Robin. No other Batfamily members yet.

    Dick Grayson should be Robin and leading the Titans. The Titans should be the original sidekicks like they should be.

    Changes to the Family:

    I think the BTAS version of Tim Drake should be the New 52 one.

    Jason Todd shouldn't exist.

    Barbra should be Oracle and Stephanie should be Batgirl.

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