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  1. #3076
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    I don't think there needs to be more than 5-6 costumed members excluding Batman in the bat family at any given time.

  2. #3077
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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    Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson relationship should primarily function based on a sibling dynamic. The father/son vibe could still be there but is should be something that both characters don't really let on to the public and rarely address it as such. Dick and Bruce should be the younger and older brother that don't really admit they have a father/son connection.

  3. #3078
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    Like Obi Wan and Anakin?

  4. #3079
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I've read arguments for killing him off and splitting his archetypal role between Harley and Punchline.
    I know Harley but who is this other guy? Tynion gets just ignored like Tom king

  5. #3080
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    first, let me get out the way that DC still could do better by Duke. having said that, dude started the year coming off a year+ of consistent page time in Outsiders then had appearances in Death Metal, Death Metal - Robin King, Future State, and a Tales from the Dark Multiverse story. then he had a one-shot, he's made his first out of comics cameo, and he's having a starring role in the Fear State: Outsiders story in Urban Legends where he's on the cover of the book. so it's weird to say he's "barely around" when not only has he been consistently around but he just came off of like 4 stories where he's the focal point within less than a year; his one-shot was literally last month. considering where he started, when people started saying this, compared to now, is it a really reasonable observation? no, it's weird defeatist wishful thinking that is common not just with Duke but most things that are new that have been introduced in the last decade or so. people can't even fathom the fact that we're still on the post-Flashpoint world lol like c'mon. y'all chattin. like I said, until it happens I couldn't possibly care.
    Duke received a crazy push this year by Snyder, both because he's Snyder's creation and all the metal/death metal books were lead by Snyder, and because of the BLM (Snyder said on interviews he plans to push towards more diversity).
    But Snyder more or less left DC, for now, the outsiders couldn't hold an ongoing and are now relegated to Urban Legends, and Duke's one-shot wasn't well received.

    He is planned to appear in Dark knights of steel this year, but other than that it doesn't look too optimistic. Or am I missing something?

  6. #3081
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Devil View Post
    I don't think there needs to be more than 5-6 costumed members excluding Batman in the bat family at any given time.
    Yeah and the limits of just how many there are get a bit blurry... Damian counts, does his mom? Barbara Gordon counts... do her Birds of Prey allies? If NOT then there's at least one Batgirl(aka Misfit) who does NOT count as Bat-family?

  7. #3082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Devil View Post
    Like Obi Wan and Anakin?
    Well, Anakin pretty explicitly sees their dynamic as father/son:

    Obi-Wan:
    Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?

    Anakin:
    Don't say that, master. You're the closest thing I have to a father.
    Which is fair, considering Obi-Wan did raise him. Similarly to Bruce and Dick, now that you mention.

  8. #3083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Devil View Post
    I don't think there needs to be more than 5-6 costumed members excluding Batman in the bat family at any given time.
    I agree with this. It's fine to have adjacent members (Huntress, for example, doesn't really count). But the actual family needs be fairly limited, so as to be meaningful.

  9. #3084
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    So...
    1. Dick
    2. Babs
    3. Tim
    4. Cass
    5. Steph
    6. Damian

    I'm discounting Jason since half the fandom don't mind him not part of the family, Selina's only close when they're dating, and Duke has his own family, team and HQ, same with Kate. I can exclude Steph since she's closer to Babs and Tim, but she's already a Robin and Batgirl so I think she can be part of the inner circle. Honestly I can exclude Babs too and keep it to people adopted by Bruce, but she's such an iconic member she has to be there.

    Also since Dick is in Bludhaven he can be excluded too, and you can include Duke or Helena

  10. #3085
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson relationship should primarily function based on a sibling dynamic. The father/son vibe could still be there but is should be something that both characters don't really let on to the public and rarely address it as such. Dick and Bruce should be the younger and older brother that don't really admit they have a father/son connection.
    Agreed.

    Bruce has enough other people to act as a father figure to.

  11. #3086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    So...
    1. Dick
    2. Babs
    3. Tim
    4. Cass
    5. Steph
    6. Damian

    I'm discounting Jason since half the fandom don't mind him not part of the family, Selina's only close when they're dating, and Duke has his own family, team and HQ, same with Kate. I can exclude Steph since she's closer to Babs and Tim, but she's already a Robin and Batgirl so I think she can be part of the inner circle. Honestly I can exclude Babs too and keep it to people adopted by Bruce, but she's such an iconic member she has to be there.

    Also since Dick is in Bludhaven he can be excluded too, and you can include Duke or Helena
    Oh I'd certainly count Jason.

    Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim, and Damian are the ones I'd count as part of the close family, even when Jason is estranged.

    Kate, Duke, Helena, and the rest are fringe members. Cass and Steph are somewhere in the middle range.

    Selina is not part of the Batfamily in my mind. Perhaps that's my controversial opinion.

  12. #3087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    Oh I'd certainly count Jason.

    Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim, and Damian are the ones I'd count as part of the close family, even when Jason is estranged.

    Kate, Duke, Helena, and the rest are fringe members. Cass and Steph are somewhere in the middle range.

    Selina is not part of the Batfamily in my mind. Perhaps that's my controversial opinion.
    Yes, I agree with you.
    There is the close family (sons + Babs), the free agents (Luke, Helena, Duke), and Cass and Steph, who seem to be getting a push towards the family, but are not exactly inner circle yet.

  13. #3088
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    first, let me get out the way that DC still could do better by Duke. having said that, dude started the year coming off a year+ of consistent page time in Outsiders then had appearances in Death Metal, Death Metal - Robin King, Future State, and a Tales from the Dark Multiverse story. then he had a one-shot, he's made his first out of comics cameo, and he's having a starring role in the Fear State: Outsiders story in Urban Legends where he's on the cover of the book. so it's weird to say he's "barely around" when not only has he been consistently around but he just came off of like 4 stories where he's the focal point within less than a year; his one-shot was literally last month. considering where he started, when people started saying this, compared to now, is it a really reasonable observation? no, it's weird defeatist wishful thinking that is common not just with Duke but most things that are new that have been introduced in the last decade or so. people can't even fathom the fact that we're still on the post-Flashpoint world lol like c'mon. y'all chattin. like I said, until it happens I couldn't possibly care.
    Metal was written by Snyder. Dukes creator who I think tried to push him a lot.
    With Snyder (and his close co worker Tynion) now gone, I'm not sure if there is someone at DC who really interesting in pushing Duke.

    And I mean just look at Batwoman, they were really pushing her for quite some time, and now it is mostly background appearances and an anthology story every now and than.

    I don't think Duke will completely vanish, but going forward he might end up being used as much as Batwoman and Batwing.

  14. #3089
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    Oh I'd certainly count Jason.

    Dick, Babs, Jason, Tim, and Damian are the ones I'd count as part of the close family, even when Jason is estranged.

    Kate, Duke, Helena, and the rest are fringe members. Cass and Steph are somewhere in the middle range.

    Selina is not part of the Batfamily in my mind. Perhaps that's my controversial opinion.
    Well if that's the case I'm adding Cass to the sixth since she's supposed to be adopted before the Reboot happened.

    Otherwise, it goes like this.

    The Fox Fam
    - Jace
    - Luke
    - Tiffany

    The Babs Fam (The Birds)
    - Babs
    - Cass
    - Steph
    - Helena
    - Harper

    The Hood Fam
    - Jason
    - Scarlet
    - Clownhunter

    The Kane Fam
    - Kate
    - Bette

    The Bat Fam
    - Bruce
    - Tim
    - Damian
    - Duke

    The Wing Fam
    - Nightwing
    - Defacer
    - The Run-Offs

    The Sirens
    - Harley
    - Ivy
    - Bella

    The Cat Fam
    - Selina
    - Holly
    - Kitrina

    The Outsiders
    - Black Lightning
    - Katana
    - Ghost-Maker
    - Azrael
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 08-29-2021 at 12:27 AM.

  15. #3090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Well if that's the case I'm adding Cass to the sixth since she's supposed to be adopted before the Reboot happened.

    Otherwise, it goes like this.

    The Fox Fam
    - Jace
    - Luke
    - Tiffany

    The Babs Fam (The Birds)
    - Babs
    - Cass
    - Steph
    - Helena
    - Harper

    The Hood Fam
    - Jason
    - Scarlet
    - Clownhunter

    The Kane Fam
    - Kate
    - Bette

    The Bat Fam
    - Bruce
    - Tim
    - Damian
    - Duke

    The Wing Fam
    - Nightwing
    - Defacer
    - The Run-Offs

    The Sirens
    - Harley
    - Ivy
    - Bella

    The Cat Fam
    - Selina
    - Holly
    - Kitrina

    The Outsiders
    - Black Lightning
    - Katana
    - Ghost-Maker
    - Azrael
    I'd argue that the Titans are more Nightwing's family than characters we stopped seeing at the middle/end of Seeley's run.

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