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  1. #3121
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I know you enjoyed Joker in The Batman cartoon and I've always felt personality-wise they were pretty similar.

    DCAU Joker is usually seen as definitive for Mark Hamill's performance and how he personified a lot of recognizable Joker stuff for audiences at the time.
    Maybe it's the different voices but the two didn't strike me that similar. Though the drastic design differences probably also didn't help.

    Though like I said, I grew up with The Batman while I didn't catch much of the DCAU at all during it's original aside from the odd dvd we rented.

  2. #3122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    More like it's not that different a performance from what he usually gives by that point in his career.

    And I guess time to gut this sacred cow, but I've never gotten what made DCAU Joker "definitive". Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with the B:TAS so I have no real particular reverence for it.
    I think he is just the classic Joker, so it was a short step to becoming definitive. He is wearing a suit, and his hair is not crazy. He is funny and weirdly endearing, while at the same time being somewhat terrifying. Mark Hamill is also clearly enjoying himself.

    I'm not a "BTAS can do no wrong" man, but I understand why we look back to that. He looks like the Joker looked before, sounds like the Joker could sound, and is entertaining to watch.

    Everyone that came after that tried to diverge from it, to different degrees of success. I think John DiMaggio's take in Under the Red Hood is also pretty great, from design to voice.

  3. #3123
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    I saw nothing wrong with Bruce/Barbs sleeping together.

    Like, I prefer for it not to be canon to the main universe, but overall I see nothing wrong with it happening in AUs.

    I mean, maybe it's because I'm in the "Barbs should be older" camp, but overall I would say it's a much more natural pairing than her being paired off with Jason or Tim (Arkham games).

  4. #3124
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Batman can still tell good stories regardless of if the ending is necessarily happy or not.

  5. #3125
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    More like it's not that different a performance from what he usually gives by that point in his career.

    And I guess time to gut this sacred cow, but I've never gotten what made DCAU Joker "definitive". Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with the B:TAS so I have no real particular reverence for it.
    At the time there were only 3 voice for Joker that people know. Jack Nicholson, Cesar Romero, and Mark Hamill. Aside from voice, BTAS gave visual and writing that match, so it comes as a more complete package.

  6. #3126
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    I saw nothing wrong with Bruce/Barbs sleeping together.

    Like, I prefer for it not to be canon to the main universe, but overall I see nothing wrong with it happening in AUs.

    I mean, maybe it's because I'm in the "Barbs should be older" camp, but overall I would say it's a much more natural pairing than her being paired off with Jason or Tim (Arkham games).
    Especially when you look at how in Birds of Prey she's treated almost as a mother figure by Misfit.

  7. #3127
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    Amazingly enough, my biggest problem with The Killing Joke animated adaptation wasn't the first half that they wrote for the movie where Babs and Bruce slept together (if we go by when the book was actually published, she probably would've been she probably would've been around 27 and he would've been 35). It was actually with the straight up adaptation second half that irked me. While I generally enjoy beat-for-beat adaptations for these animated films, this one just revealed how depressing for depressings sake the original story was.

    I'm with Alan Moore. This was def one of his weaker works that almost doesn't even need to exist since there was literally no character arc for either of the leads and there was no change to their relationship whatsoever. The only lasting change was to Barbara, which wasn't even done for the sake of the character, herself, but as a motivating factor for Batman.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 09-16-2021 at 03:20 PM.
    "Overturn everything! Can't he just write an executive order that says: 'Everything Trump did is now overturned. F**k that guy.' signed, Joe Biden."

  8. #3128
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    For some reason the part of The Killing Joke where they adapted the book directly wasn't animated like an animated movie. It was more like taking the panels from the comics and giving them as little animation as they could get away with so as to match the look of the comic beat for beat. It meant there was a lack of motion or energy to the characters where both were desperately needed. We needed to see the motions between the comic panels and we didn't get that. Work like The Dark Knight Returns does better at filling in between the panels like an animated movie is supposed to do.

  9. #3129
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Amazingly enough, my biggest problem with The Killing Joke animated adaptation wasn't the first half that they wrote for the movie where Babs and Bruce slept together (if we go by when the book was actually published, she probably would've been she probably would've been around 27 and he would've been 35).
    Is Batman's age ever referenced any where besides Year One. Where does this constant idea that he's in in his mid 30's comes from?

  10. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Is Batman's age ever referenced any where besides Year One. Where does this constant idea that he's in in his mid 30's comes from?
    In pre crisis it was said on several occasions through out the whole continuity, that he has been batman for 10 years, or that his parents were killed 25 years ago.

    Both would put him in his early to mid 30s.

  11. #3131
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    Bruce started to be depicted as older when Dick became Nightwing. This kid he'd taken in and raised for at least 5 years was now an adult, and they were never supposed to be close in age. Having two more Robins aged Bruce up further, to the point that by Knightfall he was stated to longer be in his prime. Going by The Dark Knight Returns, during the period Jason was Robin Bruce would have been in his mid-40s. That has him retire upon Jason's death and come out of retirement 10 years later at the age of 55.

  12. #3132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Is Batman's age ever referenced any where besides Year One. Where does this constant idea that he's in in his mid 30's comes from?
    I just did my own math. Year One, Year Two, plus around 6 years with Dick as Robin, then plus another two since it happened shortly before The Joker killed Jason.

    Yours may differ.
    "Overturn everything! Can't he just write an executive order that says: 'Everything Trump did is now overturned. F**k that guy.' signed, Joe Biden."

  13. #3133
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I've never gotten who people will often talk about Joker being obsessed with Batman, having a past he doesn't remember, a personality that changes randomly, and being an agent of chaos and then turn right around and say Mark Hamil's Joker is the best one ever.

    Hamil's Joker has none of those characteristics.

    Hamill's Joker knows who he is and where he comes from, doesn't care about spreading chaos, he just wants to have fun in his own unique way, and would shoot Batman in the head the first chance he got.

  14. #3134
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I've never gotten who people will often talk about Joker being obsessed with Batman, having a past he doesn't remember, a personality that changes randomly, and being an agent of chaos and then turn right around and say Mark Hamil's Joker is the best one ever.

    Hamil's Joker has none of those characteristics.

    Hamill's Joker knows who he is and where he comes from, doesn't care about spreading chaos, he just wants to have fun in his own unique way, and would shoot Batman in the head the first chance he got.
    See... I've heard people say all of those things about the Joker.... but never at the same time.

  15. #3135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I've never gotten who people will often talk about Joker being obsessed with Batman, having a past he doesn't remember, a personality that changes randomly, and being an agent of chaos and then turn right around and say Mark Hamil's Joker is the best one ever.

    Hamil's Joker has none of those characteristics.

    Hamill's Joker knows who he is and where he comes from, doesn't care about spreading chaos, he just wants to have fun in his own unique way, and would shoot Batman in the head the first chance he got.
    Yeah, in Mad Love, Joker threw Harley out a window and then let Batman down from her trap and began to wander off. Only a few seconds later, he had a change of opinion...

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