Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Agent Z]

Not really. They were very badly based on characters from works by Warren Ellis that Joe Kelly didn't like, and told proper superhero stories about real, honest to god superheroes. Who killed people, but that comes with the Wildstorm teritory.

"What's So Funny" didn't poke The Authority, it poked Joe Kelly's reading comprehension. His Elite acted like (very minor) Authority villains.

Didn't Ellis state the Authority were villains who fought worse villains?

Not that I'm necessarily defending What's So Funny?

[ed2962]

Ok so...what's the issue here? It's ok for the Authority to make strawman arguments against the superhero genre, but not ok for Superman to do the same? And of course, YMMV on whether either stance is a strawman. I don't think "it's wrong to murder people" is all that arrogant of a stance, especially since the Elite weren't eager to get what they'd been dishing out.

Under Warren Ellis, the Authority really weren't about deconstruction. Ellis has said that he was just trying to do superheroes big dumb summer action movies. There was a higher level of violence, but they otherwise functioned just like the Avengers and the JLA.

It was Mark Millar that brought in the more satirical elements..."We're saving the world no matter how many people we have to kill," The Authority fighting Jack Kirby, fighting the G-8, the violence cranked up to almost cartoon levels.

[darkseidpwns]

Yeah a Batman story won't end with him killing. Except when he does. Also, you do know his two most well known love interest are killers right? And that one of his sidekicks is one too?

I get my share of bloodletting from other stories. What I have issue with is the book trying to wring cheap drama out of its franchise restrictions. I have an issue with stories that try to do The Killing Jone all the while missing the point of that story and why Alan Moore wanted it out of continuity. If the writers don't have the balms to kill Joker off them stop writing stories where Bruce is shown as an impotent, ineffectual martyr for clinging to a self-defeating rule. In short, I dislike that the writers portray the heroes as if they were in the Silver Age while using modern age writing for the villains.

I don't even know what to say to this. It's like I'm speaking to a brick wall. I'm done here.

When does he kill? unless you're talking about Burton and Zack Snyder and he actively tries to reform them, he does the same for Joker.
Huh? this makes no sense at all.
I'll repeat it's not a disability if she can communicate just fine, I gave you legit examples of disabilities.

[Agent Z]

When does he kill? unless you're talking about Burton and Zack Snyder and he actively tries to reform them, he does the same for Joker.
Huh? this makes no sense at all.
I'll repeat it's not a disability if she can communicate just fine, I gave you legit examples of disabilities.

The Golden Age as written by his original creators. Cosmic Odyssey, any story where he slaughters vampires, sentient robots and other non-human beings. The only people he tries to reform are Harvey, Selina and Talia and the latter two is because he has the hots for them.

And I've already explained how mutism is a lot more varied than what you're saying and how your understanding of disability is greatly limited.

Whatever, I think I've said all I need to with this conversation. Have a nice day.

[Atlanta96]

The Golden Age as written by his original creators. Cosmic Odyssey, any story where he slaughters vampires, sentient robots and other non-human beings. The only people he tries to reform are Harvey, Selina and Talia and the latter two is because he has the hots for them.

And I've already explained how mutism is a lot more varied than what you're saying and how your understanding of disability is greatly limited.

Whatever, I think I've said all I need to with this conversation. Have a nice day.

Vampires don't count. Neither do robots. Batman hasn't directly killed another human in comics since the Golden Age, he is staunchly anti-murder. Even when he associates with killers he strongly discourages them from killing when he's around.

[darkseidpwns]

The Golden Age as written by his original creators. Cosmic Odyssey, any story where he slaughters vampires, sentient robots and other non-human beings. The only people he tries to reform are Harvey, Selina and Talia and the latter two is because he has the hots for them.

And I've already explained how mutism is a lot more varied than what you're saying and how your understanding of disability is greatly limited.

Whatever, I think I've said all I need to with this conversation. Have a nice day.

Lol Golden Age monsters and aliens aren't human. He's tried to help Joker, Bane,Dent,Freeze, Lane and plenty of other villains. The whole idea of sending them to Arkham is hoping for them to get better.

You can make it varied all you want but Cass never struggles in communication inside the narrative. Ergo if the narrative cant convince me then it doesn't matter because we're dealing with a fictional character not an actual person. Naaratively Cassandra doesn't suffer from any disability, she has mastered her own form of communication which writers try to pass off as superior and is passable when it comes to normal forms.NOT disable.

[Agent Z]

Lol yeah they do.

Please, given what a hell hole Arkham is, he'd have to be a complete moron to think there's any hope of them being cured.

You do realize there's a difference between coping with a disability and it not existing right?

[Carabas]

Vampires don't count. Neither do robots. Batman hasn't directly killed another human in comics since the Golden Age, he is staunchly anti-murder. Even when he associates with killers he strongly discourages them from killing when he's around.

He murdered the KGBeast with premeditation.

[darkseidpwns]

Lol yeah they do.

Please, given what a hell hole Arkham is, he'd have to be a complete moron to think there's any hope of them being cured.

You do realize there's a difference between coping with a disability and it not existing right?

Monsters and vampires are human?
That's what the narrative says, it's an iconic location that is fertile ground for more stories.
If Cass writers were interested in writing her interacting with normal people and doing normal and mundane things they could pick on her disability which they sparingly did in her first series then maybe the disability angle could work. As it stands though for a very long time Cass writers have been more interested in martial arts and ass kicking to care about any mutism and normality.

[Agent Z]

Human, no. Snetient, yes. or do you think humans are the only sentient creatures?

This is like saying Babs wasn't crippled because the writers didn't mention it every time even when we could clearly see it. Again, getting around a disability does not mean it does not exist. Babs' paralysis wasn't the subject of all her stories but it was still there. And the same goes for Cass' mutism.

[Rise]

Let's see..

G.C.P.D are more interesting than the batfamily and I wish Tec was about them instead.

I don't mind the batfamily, but I wish they weren't full of teenagers and are actually older.

No one has the right to blame Batman for what happened to Damian, Stephanie and Tim because it's actually their fault what happened to them.

Clayface is the only good thing about Tynion's Tec and Stephanie is one of the many bad things about it.

[Godlike13]

Human, no. Snetient, yes. or do you think humans are the only sentient creatures?

This is like saying Babs wasn't crippled because the writers didn't mention it every time even when we could clearly see it. Again, getting around a disability does not mean it does not exist. Babs' paralysis wasn't the subject of all her stories but it was still there. And the same goes for Cass' mutism.

Writers didn't have to mention Babs was crippled because readers could see it, and it had an actual meaningful impact on pretty much every thing the character did, or could not do, whether they mentioned it or not. Its more like trying to call the current Babs disabled because she has an implant that allows for her to walk. Even though in the end she's able to walk around just fine and one can't really tell the difference. Cass' mutism has to be mention otherwise no one would know. It never really hindered the character in a meaningful way, especially as a superhero. It more so acted as a means to invoke sympathy, and as soon as it might have become inconvenient they hand waved it away. And its just flat out not there with the current Cass, who understands speech and communicants fine, and more so just uses words sparingly.

[darkseidpwns]

Human, no. Snetient, yes. or do you think humans are the only sentient creatures?

This is like saying Babs wasn't crippled because the writers didn't mention it every time even when we could clearly see it. Again, getting around a disability does not mean it does not exist. Babs' paralysis wasn't the subject of all her stories but it was still there. And the same goes for Cass' mutism.

I mentioned human not sentinent, same goes for Batman and besides Bacteria are also sentinent creatures so is that chicken you eat for lunch, in short if it aint human it dont matter in the story unless the writer wants it to matter.
Babs spent her time unable to get out in to the field despite being trained to do simply because of her disability, it worked in the narrative. Cassandra stories were never interested in that, or at least lost interest with in the first few issues of her solo. Maybe you're the one who hasn't read Cass stories.

[darkseidpwns]

Let's see..

G.C.P.D are more interesting than the batfamily and I wish Tec was about them instead.

I don't mind the batfamily, but I wish they weren't full of teenagers and are actually older.

No one has the right to blame Batman for what happened to Damian, Stephanie and Tim because it's actually their fault what happened to them.

Clayface is the only good thing about Tynion's Tec and Stephanie is one of the many bad things about it.

I dont think anyone blames Batman for what happened to Damian though, even Damian doesn't blame him, Batman blamed himself till Dick showed him otherwise.

[Godlike13]

I dont think anyone blames Batman for what happened to Damian though, even Damian doesn't blame him, Batman blamed himself till Dick showed him otherwise.

I actually thought Dick, if anybody, should have blamed himself. Not that he's to blame, but i think it would have made sense for his character to do so, even if just a little, given that he was the one that put the R on him and he was pretty much right there when it happened.