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  1. #3136
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Catwoman cheating on Bruce would have been a better alternative for calling off the marriage than what we got.

    - - - - - - - -

    Like, for some odd reason people tend to get up in arms when it comes to infidelity, meanwhile don't bat an eye at characters killing, etc. But as a Catwoman fan, lets be real it's completely in character for Selina to cheat. Lying, stealing and cheating is literally what her character is built upon.

  2. #3137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Catwoman cheating on Bruce would have been a better alternative for calling off the marriage than what we got.

    - - - - - - - -

    Like, for some odd reason people tend to get up in arms when it comes to infidelity, meanwhile don't bat an eye at characters killing, etc. But as a Catwoman fan, lets be real it's completely in character for Selina to cheat. Lying, stealing and cheating is literally what her character is built upon.
    I feel like calling off the marriage would be a mistake either way… but having it go off successfully, and then they break up later for some reason?

    That feels like it would have outmaneuvered the meta-textual waste of building towards a marriage only to not do it - which was the real problem - and then allow realistic, in-character portrayals to eventually cause a problem. People were excited for the marriage for more than just ‘shipping reasons; it was probably more that it was a potential status quo shift that made it sound intriguing and interesting.

    Whether it was a dumb “Bane plants a rumor” idea, Selina cheating on Bruce, Bruce cheating on Selina, whatever it could be, the mistake was teasing a status quo change than juking away from it and postponing it for so long people got sick of the whole story.

    Personally, I think having them get married, than have things get stormy later is the better idea, especially if you use both characters. *Both* Bruce and Selina have plenty of character flaws that would impede a long term relationship, and Bruce causing an estrangement, divorce or breakup would arguably be the better dramatic way to go with it just because the hero screwing up is more interesting than the former-villainess doing so.

    …Then I’d embrace the full soap-opera/sitcom potential of Bruce and Selina being an on-again, off-again married/estranged/divorced couple going forward.

    Maybe my personal controversial opinion is that “single and ready to mingle” Bruce isn’t actually as interesting as either just an all-business Batman or being with one of his more interesting love interest. No one really cares about his more “mundane” love interests, and the escapist part of his allure actually doesn’t benefit that much from “interchangeable hot regular chick #5”; Vicky Vale and others just don’t have staying power.

    Batman may align with James Bond style heroes in that audience’s like a vicarious love life, but people enjoy the developed and extraordinary characters much more than the forgettable “Bond Girl” types.
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  3. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Catwoman cheating on Bruce would have been a better alternative for calling off the marriage than what we got.

    - - - - - - - -

    Like, for some odd reason people tend to get up in arms when it comes to infidelity, meanwhile don't bat an eye at characters killing, etc. But as a Catwoman fan, lets be real it's completely in character for Selina to cheat. Lying, stealing and cheating is literally what her character is built upon.
    You're kidding right? People lose their minds over DC characters killing. Tom King got death threats over Poison Ivy killing a bunch of guys who tried to murder her and fans have been up in arms over the movie and tv versions of DC heroes using lethal force regardless of if it is justified.

    And Selina being a thief and her cheating on her romantic partners are two different things.

  4. #3139
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I feel like calling off the marriage would be a mistake either way… but having it go off successfully, and then they break up later for some reason?

    That feels like it would have outmaneuvered the meta-textual waste of building towards a marriage only to not do it - which was the real problem - and then allow realistic, in-character portrayals to eventually cause a problem. People were excited for the marriage for more than just ‘shipping reasons; it was probably more that it was a potential status quo shift that made it sound intriguing and interesting.

    Whether it was a dumb “Bane plants a rumor” idea, Selina cheating on Bruce, Bruce cheating on Selina, whatever it could be, the mistake was teasing a status quo change than juking away from it and postponing it for so long people got sick of the whole story.

    Personally, I think having them get married, than have things get stormy later is the better idea, especially if you use both characters. *Both* Bruce and Selina have plenty of character flaws that would impede a long term relationship, and Bruce causing an estrangement, divorce or breakup would arguably be the better dramatic way to go with it just because the hero screwing up is more interesting than the former-villainess doing so.

    …Then I’d embrace the full soap-opera/sitcom potential of Bruce and Selina being an on-again, off-again married/estranged/divorced couple going forward.

    Maybe my personal controversial opinion is that “single and ready to mingle” Bruce isn’t actually as interesting as either just an all-business Batman or being with one of his more interesting love interest. No one really cares about his more “mundane” love interests, and the escapist part of his allure actually doesn’t benefit that much from “interchangeable hot regular chick #5”; Vicky Vale and others just don’t have staying power.

    Batman may align with James Bond style heroes in that audience’s like a vicarious love life, but people enjoy the developed and extraordinary characters much more than the forgettable “Bond Girl” types.
    .
    Exactly.

    To me, they shouldn't have built up the marriage at all if they weren't going to go through it (especially since as fans we know DC hates Bruce being happy, so it was expected). But if they do decide to cancel it, it should be for actual realistic reasons — which I believe is cheating since that's the most common cause for divorce.
    Last edited by Marik Swift; 09-18-2021 at 12:42 PM.

  5. #3140
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I'm fine with Bruce and Selina never cheating on each other. It would just kill any sympathy for the partner who does the cheating (and I definitely don't like the idea of it automatically being Selina) and the audience likely would likely stop caring about them going forward. With how weird and damaged they both are, I can easily see their marriage not being able to work long term even if they never stop loving each other. They are very much a couple who would get divorced and have a constant "will they/won't they" dynamic going on until they're old and gray even if they never get married again.

    It could also be interesting to see how this dynamic would impact their parenting of Helena. The lack of stability would do a lot of damage to her if they weren't careful, would Bruce and Selina work to minimize that as much as possible while navigating their messy feelings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I've never gotten who people will often talk about Joker being obsessed with Batman, having a past he doesn't remember, a personality that changes randomly, and being an agent of chaos and then turn right around and say Mark Hamil's Joker is the best one ever.

    Hamil's Joker has none of those characteristics.

    Hamill's Joker knows who he is and where he comes from, doesn't care about spreading chaos, he just wants to have fun in his own unique way, and would shoot Batman in the head the first chance he got.
    I think DCAU Joker is as addicted to his feud with Batman and loves to get under his skin as other versions, but he also hates Batman and isn't above being caught in the moment and just considering offing him when he has the chance. But he'd probably miss having Batman around to torment on some level afterwards, but likely wouldn't retire from crime either.

    Agreed that him being a more consistent character and not having any "agent of chaos" bullshit helped him tremendously in being the best version of the character. It's all been downhill since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm fine with Bruce and Selina never cheating on each other. It would just kill any sympathy for the partner who does the cheating (and I definitely don't like the idea of it automatically being Selina) and the audience likely would likely stop caring about them going forward. With how weird and damaged they both are, I can easily see their marriage not being able to work long term even if they never stop loving each other. They are very much a couple who would get divorced and have a constant "will they/won't they" dynamic going on until they're old and gray even if they never get married again.

    It could also be interesting to see how this dynamic would impact their parenting of Helena. The lack of stability would do a lot of damage to her if they weren't careful, would Bruce and Selina work to minimize that as much as possible while navigating their messy feelings?



    I think DCAU Joker is as addicted to his feud with Batman and loves to get under his skin as other versions, but he also hates Batman and isn't above being caught in the moment and just considering offing him when he has the chance. But he'd probably miss having Batman around to torment on some level afterwards, but likely wouldn't retire from crime either.

    Agreed that him being a more consistent character and not having any "agent of chaos" bullshit helped him tremendously in being the best version of the character. It's all been downhill since then.
    Bruce’s supervillain-targeting paranoia and Selina’s inherent contrariness and rebelliousness would be far more sympathetic of a reason for them to have a tumultuous long term relationship than outright cheating on each other; don't get me wrong, it would make sense for them to have other relationships during an “off period” but audiences would enjoy a less “treacherous” emotional breakdown between them.

    One thing I enjoy about Hamill’s Joker is that he usually is shown to be genuinely greedy, even if it’s far, far away from his sole motivation. And it’s fun to have him basically face late between “I’m doing soemthing for the sheer, over-the-top spite of it” and “Money!”
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  7. #3142
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Personally, I like the idea of Batman training kids to be his mercenaries. I know how that sounds, but if you think about it that’s how old Batman was when he started. He also usually doesn’t just pluck random kids off the street, but rather kids who have been through something that would motivate them to pursue a life like that. He also lets them see his Bruce Wayne side, something he doesn’t do for just anybody, which is a big deal because he wants people to fear him, but not these kids, whether they end up doing so anyway is another matter.

  8. #3143
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Personally, I like the idea of Batman training kids to be his mercenaries. I know how that sounds, but if you think about it that’s how old Batman was when he started. He also usually doesn’t just pluck random kids off the street, but rather kids who have been through something that would motivate them to pursue a life like that. He also lets them see his Bruce Wayne side, something he doesn’t do for just anybody, which is a big deal because he wants people to fear him, but not these kids, whether they end up doing so anyway is another matter.
    I prefer to think of them as “apprentices” but I agree with the fact that it works for Batman, however weird it may be.

    Really, I think that someone should have Ra’s use that as one of his biggest arguments why he thinks Batman would be a good successor.
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  9. #3144
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    Joker should be just a sad Clown like in the Joker movie not a criminal mastermind or agent of chaos or Batman counterpart
    Batman is not a hero he is a vigilante he is crazy like the guys he want to catch
    I dont like the idea of Batman having Robins if he have someone should be only Dick
    Batman Animated series are good but overrated
    Last edited by JediBatman54; 09-23-2021 at 09:43 PM.

  10. #3145
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Really, I think that someone should have Ra’s use that as one of his biggest arguments why he thinks Batman would be a good successor.
    I'm not a fan of Ra's looking for a successor, but sure.

  11. #3146
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    Golden Age Batman is very underrated
    Love the concept of Batman but I don't like how he is depicted in most comics and movies

  12. #3147
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Personally, I like the idea of Batman training kids to be his mercenaries. I know how that sounds, but if you think about it that’s how old Batman was when he started. He also usually doesn’t just pluck random kids off the street, but rather kids who have been through something that would motivate them to pursue a life like that. He also lets them see his Bruce Wayne side, something he doesn’t do for just anybody, which is a big deal because he wants people to fear him, but not these kids, whether they end up doing so anyway is another matter.
    That only applies to BatmanBruce / RobinDick Grayson and DickBats / RobinDamian and it only works for those two narratives.

    Bruce met Dick early on so likely was naďve enough to think that the approach was a sound and reasonable one. with the rest Bruce has been crime fighting long enough to know that the lifestyle isn't one to be encouraged.

    He saw himself in the young Dick Grayson unlike with the rest and he didn't know any better at the time when he met Dick.

    Jason had been through stuff but Bruce didn't predict that he was heading down the vigilante path.
    Tim hadn't been through anything, there was no indication he was ever going to become a vigilante and Bruce having just lost Jason 100% knew better.

    Damian was at a similar age as Dick was when he lost his folks.
    Damian was already living the life so it made sense and works

  13. #3148
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Actually, Jason has an origin in which his parents are murdered by Killer Croc.
    Tim witnessed Nightwing’s parents murder and deduced Batman’s identity and was inspired by him. He was training himself. If not for the death of Jason, he wouldn’t have been motivated to seek Batman out, but he did have signs of becoming a vigilante. At least he was capable enough for it.

  14. #3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Damian was at a similar age as Dick was when he lost his folks.
    Not really in stories that are actually set around that time Dick is usually 12, so he is close to Jason's (12) and Tim's (13) original starting ages, than to Damian's (10).

  15. #3150
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I prefer to think of them as “apprentices” but I agree with the fact that it works for Batman, however weird it may be.

    Really, I think that someone should have Ra’s use that as one of his biggest arguments why he thinks Batman would be a good successor.
    It doesn't work after Jason.

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