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  1. #3166
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    No, he's not. All of Tim's actions were of his own choice. If Batman didn't take him in, he definitely would have struck out on his own.
    Tim trained in martial arts, acrobatics, and gymnastics. His parents may not have died, but they were seldom around, but it doesn't really matter if his parents died or not.
    Yoy are of the personal opinion that he would have struck out on his own but Tim himself was only in it to help Batman.

    He was in it because batman needs a Robin. He thought that B&R was a symbol. He noticed a change in batman and that was what prompted him to enter the world of crime fighting. so No he would not have struck out on his own.

    I've been enrolled in martial art classes since Primary school doesn't mean that I'm trained.

  2. #3167
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Again, yes he would have struck out on his own if Jason Todd had been there because he was initially inspired by Batman and Robin when Nightwing was still in the Robin role. He didn't even plan on having anything to do with Robin until he felt Batman needed a Robin and, even then, he had to be encouraged by Dick and Alfred to do so.

  3. #3168
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Um, Tim’s original goal was to get Dick to be Robin again. Tim didn’t even see himself as a lifer. The plan was to do his time then move on with his civilian life. One can make a pretty good argument Robin ruined his life.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-30-2021 at 12:57 AM.

  4. #3169
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    First off, if Jason hadn't been killed Tim wouldn't exist, so he couldn't have struck out on his own. He wouldn't have been a twinkle in any creator's eye. Even then, he did not set out with the goal of becoming Robin or a superhero. He was the fanboy who was trying to get the band back together and only decided to become Robin when Dick refused to give up being Nightwing to go back to being Robin. Assuming he existed, he wouldn't have put on tights or done any superhero work during his teenaged years. If anything he would have become a cop/detective as an adult.

  5. #3170
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Okay now you're talking about meta stuff. That's not the argument I signed up for, you can have fun having that discussion with somebody else.

  6. #3171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    One can make a pretty good argument Robin ruined his life.
    Not really. I mean the death of his mother had nothing to do with him being Robin (in training) and without Batman getting envolved his father might have also died at that point.

  7. #3172
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Okay now you're talking about meta stuff. That's not the argument I signed up for, you can have fun having that discussion with somebody else.
    Meta stuff was barely brought up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Not really. I mean the death of his mother had nothing to do with him being Robin (in training) and without Batman getting envolved his father might have also died at that point.
    He still had a father, a home, and support. Being Robin directly caused his father to die and derailed any envisioned life outside of being Robin. His family, education, career goals. Being Robin ultimately destroyed them all. Tim is a moderately accomplished Robin, with no family, higher education, or career. What he said he wanted in life, Robin ultimately cost him. Even as a superhero every thing after Robin has kind of flopped for him as he failed to adapt out of the shadow of his Robin.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-30-2021 at 07:36 AM.

  8. #3173
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Meta stuff was barely brought up.
    You must not be reading the posts or are willfully ignoring it.

  9. #3174
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    You must not be reading the posts or are willfully ignoring it.
    Tim's motivation being to get batman and Robin back together isn't meta
    Tim's original goal and drive being getting Dick to return to Bruce's side as Robin isn't meta
    Tim not seeking to get into the crimefighting life isn't meta.
    Tim becoming Robin temporarily until someone else comes along isn't meta
    Tim seeing Robin and heroics as a temporary gig isn't meta
    Tim saying that he only cared about being Robin a sidekick isn't meta
    Tim only being prompted by jason death and the change in batman isn't meta.

    These are all information we are told clearly in the comics. Almost of it by Tim himself.
    By his own words it was never something he had ever considered and it wasn't something he planned to do on a longterm basis.

    He took it because there was no other option and on the basis that he'd give it up and return to his regular life as soon as someone suitable came along.

    Tim was never on the vigilante path.

  10. #3175
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Again, yes he would have struck out on his own if Jason Todd had been there because he was initially inspired by Batman and Robin when Nightwing was still in the Robin role. He didn't even plan on having anything to do with Robin until he felt Batman needed a Robin and, even then, he had to be encouraged by Dick and Alfred to do so.
    No. He was a fan of the duo that doesn't mean he was headed down that path. being a fan and being inspired to follow their lead are not the same.

    Agreed. He didn't plan on having anything to do with crime fighting until he felt Batman needed a robin.
    he took the job because there wasn't anyone else available.

  11. #3176
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    No, he was inspired by them. That is the exact phrasing used for his character.

  12. #3177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    He still had a father, a home, and support. Being Robin directly caused his father to die and derailed any envisioned life outside of being Robin. His family, education, career goals. Being Robin ultimately destroyed them all. Tim is a moderately accomplished Robin, with no family, higher education, or career. What he said he wanted in life, Robin ultimately cost him. Even as a superhero every thing after Robin has kind of flopped for him as he failed to adapt out of the shadow of his Robin.
    Thing is Tim's father might not have lived that long when Tim hadn't been Robin.

    I he would have very likely have also died in the story where Tim's mother died, if Batman hadn't come to rescue them, and it is at least imo not 100% sure that he would have done that with out having a connection to Tim.

    Later during Knightfall Tim's father got kidnapped by Benedict Asp alongside Shondra Kinsolving (which had iirc also nothing to do with Tim being Robin), despite having his Back broken by Bane, Bruce went to rescue them, leaving Gotham in the hands of Azrael, which he very likely wouldn't have done if didn't had a personal connection to Tim.

    And there was also that time when his Girlfriend Ariana Dzerchenko was kidnapped by KGBeast ...

  13. #3178
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    No, he was inspired by them. That is the exact phrasing used for his character.
    Inspired to do what? Not to become a crime fighter. Tim was attached to Dick Grayson and he was a fan. Again that doesn't mean he was planning or was destined to pursue that lfestyle. The story and Tim himself never said he had any aspirations of following in their line of work.

    It's made very clear his only goal was helping Batman getting back the status quo of Batman and Robin much like a fan who reaches out to writers/DC to bring back a character they enjoy.

    Tim words tell us all we need to know. His inner thoughts tells us he never considered the path.

  14. #3179
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Thing is Tim's father might not have lived that long when Tim hadn't been Robin.

    I he would have very likely have also died in the story where Tim's mother died, if Batman hadn't come to rescue them, and it is at least imo not 100% sure that he would have done that with out having a connection to Tim.

    Later during Knightfall Tim's father got kidnapped by Benedict Asp alongside Shondra Kinsolving (which had iirc also nothing to do with Tim being Robin), despite having his Back broken by Bane, Bruce went to rescue them, leaving Gotham in the hands of Azrael, which he very likely wouldn't have done if didn't had a personal connection to Tim.

    And there was also that time when his Girlfriend Ariana Dzerchenko was kidnapped by KGBeast ...
    Might not and likely are assumptions which may or may not be true. They are your personal opinion. What happened that we know is the truth is that Him being Robin resulted in his fathers death.

  15. #3180
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Hmm... let's say Jason never died and still Robin when Drake's flight was hijacked... Tim by this point would've already known Batman and Robin's identity because of Dick's quadruple somersault right? So as a fanboy whose parents are personally in danger now, I think he'd go either to Dick's NY apartment or the Manor and beg for his idols to save them.

    After that, who knows.

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