Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[exile001]

I think it makes sense, with current technology, that Batman would be able to figure out Joker's secret identity and the location of his wife and child.

But Joker's wife died before giving birth, at least in The Killing Joke story that introduced the concept, so it'd make it a lot harder to connect those dots using them. Harder still to have the prescience to fake their deaths and witness protect them prior to him even becoming Joker, but I guess the cops could have caught wind of the robbery (they and Batman got there quickly).

Regardless, like most of Johns' Batman writing it was the absolute least interesting, most contrived and frustrating way the story could have gone in my opinion.

[Alan2099]

I never liked any story where Joker is trying to prove that all it takes is one bad day to break somebody. Joker trying to prove a point or teach a lesson, to me, feel like it misses the point of Joker.

One day ruining your life really feels like it should be a Two-Face thing.

[godisawesome]

Give me “Joker was a misanthropic thug and gangster before he even met the Red Hood gang” over “Sad comedian with a dead wife” any day of the weak.

I have enough trouble getting mildly interested in the type of “descent into madness” story that the movie went with… by which I mean I spoiled myself on it and still don’t especially care to actually see it… so I have even less patience for trying to make him a sympathetic guy with a Freudian Excuse.

I just… don’t have any time for Joker as a protagonist in any way - I even find The Killing Joker boring, because it’s a great monologue and a paltry, pathetic story that, arguably, really shouldn’t have been in continuity if it’s only seismic impact on the mythos was a strictly casual detail it went through.

Ever since I first checked out The Killing Joke and A Death In The Family from the library, I’ve always thought the latter was the only one worth my time.

Joker’s an unsympathetic, love-to-hate dick. He’s always best as that.

[millernumber1]

Give me “Joker was a misanthropic thug and gangster before he even met the Red Hood gang” over “Sad comedian with a dead wife” any day of the weak.

I have enough trouble getting mildly interested in the type of “descent into madness” story that the movie went with… by which I mean I spoiled myself on it and still don’t especially care to actually see it… so I have even less patience for trying to make him a sympathetic guy with a Freudian Excuse.

I just… don’t have any time for Joker as a protagonist in any way - I even find The Killing Joker boring, because it’s a great monologue and a paltry, pathetic story that, arguably, really shouldn’t have been in continuity if it’s only seismic impact on the mythos was a strictly casual detail it went through.

Ever since I first checked out The Killing Joke and A Death In The Family from the library, I’ve always thought the latter was the only one worth my time.

Joker’s an unsympathetic, love-to-hate dick. He’s always best as that.

Completely agree.

[Agent Z]

Give me “Joker was a misanthropic thug and gangster before he even met the Red Hood gang” over “Sad comedian with a dead wife” any day of the weak.

I have enough trouble getting mildly interested in the type of “descent into madness” story that the movie went with… by which I mean I spoiled myself on it and still don’t especially care to actually see it… so I have even less patience for trying to make him a sympathetic guy with a Freudian Excuse.

I just… don’t have any time for Joker as a protagonist in any way - I even find The Killing Joker boring, because it’s a great monologue and a paltry, pathetic story that, arguably, really shouldn’t have been in continuity if it’s only seismic impact on the mythos was a strictly casual detail it went through.

Ever since I first checked out The Killing Joke and A Death In The Family from the library, I’ve always thought the latter was the only one worth my time.

Joker’s an unsympathetic, love-to-hate dick. He’s always best as that.

It bears remembering that the "one bad day" belief is disproven by Gordon and it could be argued that it took more than one bad day to make the Joker what he is.

Not to mention the implication that Joker is lying about or misremembering his past.

[The Kid]

Harley getting redeemed and becoming one of Batman's allies (not necessarily partner) was always the best arc for her. Since her inception she was always shown as redeemable in BTAS and her character arc has always been moving forward as she eventually ditches Joker and becomes an anti-hero.

[godisawesome]

Harley getting redeemed and becoming one of Batman's allies (not necessarily partner) was always the best arc for her. Since her inception she was always shown as redeemable in BTAS and her character arc has always been moving forward as she eventually ditches Joker and becomes an anti-hero.

I agree, with the nuance that it’s the natural consequence of giving her agency as a POV character and protagonist; before BTNAS adapted Mad Love, her POV was limited as was her agency, so she could act as a simple bit of dark humor and be limited to a henchman. Once the audience was shown her POV and told to take it seriously once, it was impossible to put that rabbit back in the hat. And that had far reaching consequences, both for her own relaunching into more anti-heroic characterization, and in how it contributed to a similar line of thought with Poison Ivy - especially given their team up.

[thefinalguy]

Harley getting redeemed and becoming one of Batman's allies (not necessarily partner) was always the best arc for her. Since her inception she was always shown as redeemable in BTAS and her character arc has always been moving forward as she eventually ditches Joker and becomes an anti-hero.

At one point, yeah, I think this makes sense. I'd argue she has embraced her villainy separate from Joker, and that's perhaps just as interesting, if not more, than the straight anti-hero route they've been going in.

What makes Ivy and Selina so interesting is that they do things or have ideals that can be interpreted as good. Their means aren't necessarily ethical; although Selina stealing has never bothered me, there's at least something that leans them towards anti-hero if they need to be written that way.

I think the HQ show does a good job of giving Harley her independence but not necessarily being a hero, even if she is at odds with other, worse, villains. Her not being good is fine, she just doesn't need to stoop to Joker levels to have her fun.

[JediBatman54]

Give me “Joker was a misanthropic thug and gangster before he even met the Red Hood gang” over “Sad comedian with a dead wife” any day of the weak.

I have enough trouble getting mildly interested in the type of “descent into madness” story that the movie went with… by which I mean I spoiled myself on it and still don’t especially care to actually see it… so I have even less patience for trying to make him a sympathetic guy with a Freudian Excuse.

I just… don’t have any time for Joker as a protagonist in any way - I even find The Killing Joker boring, because it’s a great monologue and a paltry, pathetic story that, arguably, really shouldn’t have been in continuity if it’s only seismic impact on the mythos was a strictly casual detail it went through.

Ever since I first checked out The Killing Joke and A Death In The Family from the library, I’ve always thought the latter was the only one worth my time.

Joker’s an unsympathetic, love-to-hate dick. He’s always best as that.

For me it make sense Joker was a Comedian because he is goofy and dress like a Clown

[TheKryptonMan]

It benefits him, not her.
Dick's Dating is currently Barbara's biggest role in the comics.

Just a thought 💭, what if Dick got involved with Talia ???
How would that affect Bruce & Damian ?

[Jackalope89]

Just a thought ��, what if Dick got involved with Talia ???
How would that affect Bruce & Damian ?

Gah. Bad enough they did a thing between her and Jason. Let Dick... What I was about to say would have been too easy to take out of context.

[Restingvoice]

Just a thought ��, what if Dick got involved with Talia ???
How would that affect Bruce & Damian ?

When we're back in the 70s before everything began I would've preferred that since they're only one year apart
Now though, no
Talia wouldn't like it anyway. She views Dick as a child even back then (because she was created for Bruce).

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

When we're back in the 70s before everything began I would've preferred that since they're only one year apart
Now though, no
Talia wouldn't like it anyway. She views Dick as a child even back then (because she was created for Bruce).

I mean, it worked for Babs lmao so why not Talia?

[Restingvoice]

I mean, it worked for Babs lmao so why not Talia?

Coz they already age her up. Post Crisis I think she's still younger than Harley and Selina. Bruce and Talia's first meeting happened when Dick was still early year of Robin, middle school age. Then in Rebirth there's implication that she's immortal, or even if she's not, she's at least drawn older than Selina. Her personality is also different. She's more ruthless. Dick and Talia already didn't like each other when they're the same age, and with Talia's more assassin modern personality, he's not gonna be into her at any age.

They have better relationship in Future State, but the vibe is still nothing close to potential lover.

[batnbreakfast]

Coz they already age her up. Post Crisis I think she's still younger than Harley and Selina. Bruce and Talia's first meeting happened when Dick was still early year of Robin, middle school age. Then in Rebirth there's implication that she's immortal, or even if she's not, she's at least drawn older than Selina. Her personality is also different. She's more ruthless. Dick and Talia already didn't like each other when they're the same age, and with Talia's more assassin modern personality, he's not gonna be into her at any age.

They have better relationship in Future State, but the vibe is still nothing close to potential lover.

Talia could always drug him. Her father s League still lacks an heir, Bruce, Bane and Damian didn t work out. Hey, DC if you read this...