Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Assam]

I'm just a person who looks at things as they are. But I'm pretty sure Feminism says that women are mens equals and should be treated as such which I agree with, not that women are men.
Batman is not a gender neutral title, that has nothing to do with feminism or social justice, its fact.

Gender is psychological. Not physical. It doesn't matter what body parts you were born with, just how you see yourself. And because Cass was raised without being taught the concept of different genders, I doubt she even really considers herself male or female. Remember, Bruce and Barbara told her she was Batgirl, she didn't pick the name herself.

[Caivu]

It diminishes her motivations and agency by having her father influencing her decions, moreso because she is unaware of his manipulation, not less.

Assuming that's true, that was already the case in Elegy. Kate didn't build her Batsuit or her gear, or come up with the idea of wearing a Batsymbol. She never tried to ape Batman's theme on her own. Those were all Jacob's ideas. And that's in addition to her training.

If that's a problem, it's not a new one.

[darkseidpwns]

Gender is psychological. Not physical. It doesn't matter what body parts you were born with, just how you see yourself. And because Cass was raised without being taught the concept of different genders, I doubt she even really considers herself male or female. Remember, Bruce and Barbara told her she was Batgirl, she didn't pick the name herself.

Alright sex then, the Batman mantle is not sex neutral. It's pretty much why Batgirl and Batwoman titles were invented.

[Pohzee]

Assuming that's true, that was already the case in Elegy. Kate didn't build her Batsuit or her gear, or come up with the idea of wearing a Batsymbol. She never tried to ape Batman's theme on her own. Those were all Jacob's ideas. And that's in addition to her training.

If that's a problem, it's not a new one.

But it's the context behind his decisions that has changed. Less supportive, more manipulative.

[darkseidpwns]

But it's the context behind his decisions that has changed. Less supportive, more manipulative.

It's hard to deny that Tynion has rebooted Kate Kane, I actually had this debate with Caivu before.

[Assam]

Alright sex then, the Batman mantle is not sex neutral. It's pretty much why Batgirl and Batwoman titles were invented.

Actually, Batgirl and Batwoman were created because people were accusing Batman and Robin of being gay. Since there were, and still are, people stupid enough to think that that's wrong, of course, as characters we know that that's just wrong, but it has nothing to do with the idea of being gay, Bette and Kathy Kane were created to serve as the objects of their affection.

And no, it's not sex neutral either. During "No Man's Land", Helena Bertinelli acted as Batman since Bruce wasn't around. There's a funny interaction where a guy, after getting saved by her, comments that he was thought Batman was a man.

Her response is great, not using quotes because I don't remember the exact wording:

If you were a criminal, would you rather tell people you were beaten up by a 6 foot tall, buff man, or a tiny woman?

[Caivu]

But it's the context behind his decisions that has changed. Less supportive, more manipulative.

Okay. So what?

It's hard to deny that Tynion has rebooted Kate Kane, I actually had this debate with Caivu before.

He's not rebooted anything about her. Just expanded some things.

[darkseidpwns]

Actually, Batgirl and Batwoman were created because people were accusing Batman and Robin of being gay. Since there were, and still are, people stupid enough to think that that's wrong, of course, as characters we know that that's just wrong, but it has nothing to do with the idea of being gay, Bette and Kathy Kane were created to serve as the objects of their affection.

And no, it's not sex neutral either. During "No Man's Land", Helena Bertinelli acted as Batman since Bruce wasn't around. There's a funny interaction where a guy, after getting saved by her, comments that he was thought Batman was a man.

Her response is great, not using quotes because I don't remember the exact wording:

If you were a criminal, would you rather tell people you were beaten up by a 6 foot tall, buff man, or a tiny woman?

Bat-girl was created because of the homophobia, Batgirl was created because they wanted a female Batman counterpart.

Its not sex neutral, its in the name. Playing dress up doesn't change that, I can buy Rose Wilson becoming Deathstroke because THAT is sex neutral or Emiko Queen becoming Green Arrow for that matter. BatMAN is not sex neutral, Tigress likewise is not sex neutral. Now if they called her Batmaiden, Lady Bat or even Lady Batman I might agree but Batman by itself is not sex neutral. There is a reason Riri Williams is called Ironheart, even a company with a heavy handed liberal agenda(outwardly atleast) realized that they couldn't actually call her Iron Man.

[darkseidpwns]

Okay. So what?




He's not rebooted anything about her. Just expanded some things.

Its a reboot.

[Assam]

Bat-girl was created because of the homophobia, Batgirl was created because they wanted a female Batman counterpart.

Its not sex neutral, its in the name. Playing dress up doesn't change that, I can buy Rose Wilson becoming Deathstroke because THAT is sex neutral or Emiko Queen becoming Green Arrow for that matter. BatMAN is not sex neutral, Tigress likewise is not sex neutral. Now if they called her Batmaiden, Lady Bat or even Lady Batman I might agree but Batman by itself is not sex neutral. There is a reason Riri Williams is called Ironheart, even a company with a heavy handed liberal agenda(outwardly atleast) realized that they couldn't actually call her Iron Man.

I was actually very disappointed when it turned out Riri was called Ironheart and not Iron Man.

And fine, if you REALLY want to be technical, then lets just say that when she's out as Batman, her body is completely covered, and her breasts, which, when drawn properly, are actually rather small, would be made unseeable. Happy?

[Caivu]

Its a reboot.

And your argument for that is...?

You can't just say "it is" and leave it at that, c'mon. Let's hear some reasoning.

[darkseidpwns]

And your argument for that is...?

You can't just say "it is" and leave it at that, c'mon. Let's hear some reasoning.

We've been through it before though and Nightwinglvl has pretty much covered how I feel.

[darkseidpwns]

I was actually very disappointed when it turned out Riri was called Ironheart and not Iron Man.

And fine, if you REALLY want to be technical, then lets just say that when she's out as Batman, her body is completely covered, and her breasts, which, when drawn properly, are actually rather small, would be made unseeable. Happy?

Which proves my point.

I guess guys like Joker, Bane and Dent will be fooled by that. Oh hey Bruce you just shrunk and lost quite a bit of body mass, what the hell happened lol what difference does an average Gothamite make? when the villains and supporting characters can spot the difference from a mile away.

[Assam]

Bruce has a different body type from plenty of the guys in the Batfamily too. Jason and Jean-Paul come close, but Dick and Tim are a lot more slim, and we have no idea what Damian will be like when he's older.

[millernumber1]

Bruce has a different body type from plenty of the guys in the Batfamily too. Jason and Jean-Paul come close, but Dick and Tim are a lot more slim, and we have no idea what Damian will be like when he's older.

Untrue, Batman 666 and the followups show what he might look like grown up and in the cowl.