Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Atlanta96]

Did We Are Robin ended because Azzarelo felt the story was told or because of sales, really? It culminates in Robin:War and then Duke just takes the next logical step partnering with Batman.

Logical step...

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[Atlanta96]

It was actually written by Lee Bermejo, who said that this was the story he wanted to tell, but I also think sales and Rebirth where bigger factors in any decisions made.

I personally, I think that the writers missed an opportunity when the didn't have Tim Drake be the one behind the scenes building a team of Robin, it would have fit his New 52 personality.

Lee Bermejo hates the other Robins. In an interview for WaR he described them as "teenage white kids who all look the same". Funny how all the writers who worked on Duke have a bit of disdain for the rest of the Bat-Boys. Almost like he's a toxic character or something.

[dietrich]

Lee Bermejo hates the other Robins. In an interview for WaR he described them as "teenage white kids who all look the same". Funny how all the writers who worked on Duke have a bit of disdain for the rest of the Bat-Boys. Almost like he's a toxic character or something.

To be fair they are all teenage white kids who look the same.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Godlike13]

Damian has some color.

[Caivu]

Damian has some color.

Occasionally, when the colorist remembers.

[Atlanta96]

No I didn't leave that out, I didn't say that We Are Robin was a hit. I did say it sold better than most DC You books, and I am right.

In that same month;
Red Hood Arsenal 17,707
We Are Robin 16,412 * on par with Jason's numbers but better than the other DC You titles.
Martian Manhunter 13,761
Cyborg 13,578
Black Canary 13,566
Midnighter 9,803

We Are Robin number are higher that most of the non Batman DC You titles.

If you want to say that We Are Robin got a sale boost from Robin Wars the numbers shows the RedHood tie in gave Jason the same benefit. We Are Robin and Redhood had similar rates of increase sales;

The issue before Robin Wars;
Red Hood Arsenal 19,857
We Are Robin 19,210

Robin Wars/ tie in
We Are Robin 28,181
Red Hood Arsenal 25,789

And both books fell within and maintain close enough numbers after the event for the rest of their run.


However, the overall point I was trying to make that a Batman book with a non core Batfamily member was at least able to;
1. Sell at the same rate as Jason's book (RedHood and Arsenal)
2. It also did better that most of the DC You titles with bigger names.

So how was We Are Robin a bomb even compared to the other DC You books ? Which is what you were saying.

Outside of Starfire, We are Robin maintain better sales than almost all the non Batman family DC You titles to the end of its run.

The only sales hit from DC You was Damian's book.

I was not disagreeing with you that fans want to read core Batfamily members, I think they do. However, I was just showing that We Are Robin was able to keep close enough to a Batfamily member that have a strong fan base, while not having a core Bat family member.

Edit: My bigger point was that there should be more Batbooks if DC want to use the brand to launch new character, because I understand why they would do that.

You left out that WaR was outsold by Batman Beyond with Tim Drake almost every month, that's a Bat-Family book isn't it? So despite a tie-I'm to a major Batman event, WaR was still outsold (most of the time) by a crappy elseworlds title with a downright offensive premise. As well as Red Hood/Arsenal in later months, a crappy continuation of a reviled New 52 series minus the eroticized alien woman that made the series a hit in the first place.

WaR didn't have to bomb that badly, Starfire did better than expected. Batman Beyond did better than it had any right to. WaR was just an extremely unwanted title.

[Atlanta96]

To be fair they are all teenage white kids who look the same.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Well if that's all one has to say about all the Robins and their history then maybe they shouldn't be working on a series with "Robin" in the title. You don't hire someone who thinks the X-Men are a bunch of "Ridiculously dressed mutant freaks" to write an X-Men book.

[dietrich]

Occasionally, when the colorist remembers.

This^^ Funny the last issue of Superman had he quite tan in the 1st two pages but white in the rest.

[dietrich]

Well if that's all one has to say about all the Robins and their history then maybe they shouldn't be working on a series with "Robin" in the title. You don't hire someone who thinks the X-Men are a bunch of "Ridiculously dressed mutant freaks" to write an X-Men book.

Not condoning it esp if he said it with disdain but there's also the possibility that he was trying to highlight how different this new bunch were..... visually.

we're making Robin diverse and tapping into youth culture. Idk

Also what he said isn't the same as the X-men example you gave. Ridiculously dressed and freaks are derogatory. Nothing about White, teenagers and looking similar is derogatory.

[sakuyamons]

To be fair they are all teenage white kids who look the same.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I love the bat kids but...true.

[Frontier]

I can't take credit for this one. It comes courtesy of Shellhead, over on the Rumbles board, but I totally agree with it.

You know how Marvel likes to retcon any low-showings for Doctor Doom with the "It was a Doombot" excuse?

Well? Every Batgod moment isn't really Batman at all. It's just Batmite playing at being Batman!

The mystery is finally solved!

Or at least all those moments were Batmite fan-ficition...

[Atlanta96]

Not condoning it esp if he said it with disdain but there's also the possibility that he was trying to highlight how different this new bunch were..... visually.

we're making Robin diverse and tapping into youth culture. Idk

Also what he said isn't the same as the X-men example you gave. Ridiculously dressed and freaks are derogatory. Nothing about White, teenagers and looking similar is derogatory.

Well he meant it in a derogatory way, that's undeniable. Tapping into youth culture by insulting a group of characters that young people like, calling an established half-Arab character a white boy, smart move Bermejo.

[DragonPiece]

I'm not gonna argue, but I keep seeing two of you point out sales, but at the end of the day, none of us know the real sale numbers for these books including digital,trades,etc so arguing about them is pointless. But I do think it's fair to say We Are Robin certainly did not do that well in sales, and I'm sure the writer of the book would agree. I'm curious now that DC has a more stable reader base if that book would do better with a relaunch and a more consistent artist though? I hope with that Duke solo book we will see the we are robin kids from time to time and what they are up to now a days.

[Atlanta96]

It's a good thing they're giving Duke another shot at a solo instead of stupid Cass Cain, Steph Brown, or Tim Drake who nobody likes or cares about and have never had successful solo series in the past. DC always looks out for their fans.

[dietrich]

Well he meant it in a derogatory way, that's undeniable. Tapping into youth culture by insulting a group of characters that young people like, calling an established half-Arab character a white boy, smart move Bermejo.

Dc has never celebrated or spotlighted Damian's Arabian side aside from the name Al ghul nothing indicates that he is half-Arabian. They purposefully depict him as a white kid yet when they introduce his evil twin Heretic they dress him up in traditional Arabian gear. Classy move. They could make him more tan, hightlight his culture more, occasional show him lounging in his traditional gear. Anything to make him visually a bit different but no they go for the matching set.

So yeah they are all white kids who look the same even if one of them is half-Arabian they still all look white and similar. The one error in that sentence was the teenage part. At that point Damian wasn't a teenager.

Bermejo isn't the only one who has made that distinction or had such criticism. Plenty on this site have made reference to Bruce and his clones.

I don't agree with a writer criticising other characters. If he said it with disdain then that was wrong and unprofessional but the statement in itself is descriptive of the Robins. Visually