Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Assam]

We don't know plans for character in Tec could be some are gonna get solo or team up books. Surely if Cass, Steph and Tim got a well written team book you wouldn't resent Duke having a successful solo since you are getting what you want. You have been very vocal about how much you would love such a book.

Violet has her own book and she is new do you resent her? New character's are introduced and given books all the time.

Look, I GET that it's impossible to please everyone, because obviously, everyone has different tastes. If Tim, Cass, and Steph got their team book, who knows, maybe die hard Batwing fans would resent them.

I've gone over before how every major Batfam member could be included in an equally spaced book, while still keeping the total number of Batbooks under 10. There IS a way to give the fans of ALL these characters a decent amount of time with them each month.

I don't resent Violet, no. 1) Because she's not Batfamily, 2) Because from what I've heard she's got an interesting personality and backstory, and 3) Because up until just now, since I pay very little attention to Young Animal, I didn't even realize she was a Gotham based character.

[Pohzee]

Another former student of Snyder's writing class getting work on a newly launched series? This all sounds like blatant nepotism at the Bat-Office, which is pretty much at this point "Snyder 'n' Pals."

[Atlanta96]

Back then people were furious when Dick was supposed to grow up and replaced with a new kid however I think it was simply because people loved the Robin they already had and didn't want him to grow up. Today the situation is different. I personally could care less about Tim and Jason but the hate against Duke is obviously because of jealousy. Fans of Tim, Cass, Steph etc. want to see their favorites getting a solo and more stories and are not willing to accept new characters. They will make all kind of excuses how he is a bland character and a copy of Tim or whatever you want to believe. People also hated Damian especially fans of Tim. Fans of Jason and Dick don't always get along either. Fans of the other Batgirls hate on Babs (and Kate). There are also a lot of Batman fans who dislike having the other members of the franchise around because they prefer solo Batman. I personally still dont like Duke or Harper because I think there are more than enough characters in the Batfamily but I like what Snyder is doing with him right now and I did like We Are Robin so I don't mind to see more of him. Harper however can die as far as I care. Anyway all characters used to be new at some point, nowadays it is more difficult to indroduce characters because they have a lot of competition but if DC keep pushing them and include them in some books they will gain a fanbase. Duke already has a decent following for a new character. In 10-20 years there will be new characters again and then fans of Duke and Harper might complain about the same thing as most fans are doing right now.

A) No, he doesn't have a decent following. I once again bring up the poll showing that only 10% of people on these boards like him and over half are indifferent. Almost no one on Twitter or Tumblr talks about him (I've checked) even when an issue of All Star has just come out. Even most of his defenders will admit he's boring or underdeveloped, that is not a sign of a thriving character.

B) People don't hate Duke because of jealousy, he's a genuinely bad and underdeveloped character who is wasting panel time and filling the Bat-books with dead weight. It's a hatred of bad creative decisions and a refusal to learn from mistakes than jealousy. Moments like "Duke is better than Robin" and "Duke is Batman's greatest ally" only make it worse.

[ZuLuLu]

Tynion is a student of Synder's and Synder has said that he would love for one of his student to pick up and play with the Duke character so Tynion's new writing project could be a Duke solo or involve Duke.

I too have seen interviews where Synder teases/hints at a Duke solo so yeah it is coming.

I saw the interview to where he teases that there maybe a Duke solo, but I he have been saying for a while now that it is something that he wants one of his student to do, after Metal so I don't think it something happening any time soon.

[dietrich]

Duke is new and underdeveloped that's why he is getting more and more spotlight. How else do you expect a new character to get decent character development. His creator is also one of DC's top writers and nowadays you have to do more pushing to make a characters success. It makes perfectly sense no matter how much it pisses off other fanbases. It might be difficult to believe on this forum but Duke has a decent following, he has potential and fans who want to see more of him. My only problem with Snyder is how he keeps pushing Damian away when he is the one who should be by Batman's side. King sadly did nothing to change it. Snyder is obviously way too obsessed to make a huge impact on Batman and it's franchise but he is doing too much lately. He is a good writer and should be used elsewhere instead, he has done enough for Batman.

Correct. And as a Damian fan I'm okay with the lack of Robin in Batbooks because he is in good stories elsewhere so my needs are being met. If Tec characters are in good stories somewhere isn't that what matters?
Why resent a character cos they have a solo if you have good stories featuring your favourites.

[nightbird]

Well, Duke is not messing with any my favorite characters (they all have solo books), so it's not me being "jealous", but honestly as a character for me he is a ketchup or mayonnaise. Don't go good by himself. So, I don't see what "new and interesting" his possible solo could ever bring to Batbooks. On the other hand if it means that we will get rid of him from main Batbooks, I'm okay with it lol

[ayanestar]

A) No, he doesn't have a decent following. I once again bring up the poll showing that only 10% of people on these boards like him and over half are indifferent. Almost no one on Twitter or Tumblr talks about him (I've checked) even when an issue of All Star has just come out. Even most of his defenders will admit he's boring or underdeveloped, that is not a sign of a thriving character.

B) People don't hate Duke because of jealousy, he's a genuinely bad and underdeveloped character who is wasting panel time and filling the Bat-books with dead weight. It's a hatred of bad creative decisions and a refusal to learn from mistakes than jealousy. Moments like "Duke is better than Robin" and "Duke is Batman's greatest ally" only make it worse.

A) Make up all kind of excuses you want. The poll thing you bring up every time is simply ridiculous so I won't even bother with it. I follow enough people on tumblr, twitter and what not to know that there are enough people who want to see more of Duke. There is a decent amount of people who are interested in him despite all the hate he gets. You are a primary example of such people especially on this forum, you even go so far to bring your hate of his own appreciation thread so yes you are like the least person I want to have this discussion with.

B) Yes it is called jealousy when people complain over and over again how their favorites deserve so much better because they have a larger fanbase and have been around for longer - well yes newsflash these characters also have been created a long time ago compared to Duke. I agree that Duke had a rather bad first impression and character development when he was introduced but right now I like what Snyder is doing with him and I'm willing to give him a 2nd chance.

Correct. And as a Damian fan I'm okay with the lack of Robin in Batbooks because he is in good stories elsewhere so my needs are being met. If Tec characters are in good stories somewhere isn't that what matters?
Why resent a character cos they have a solo if you have good stories featuring your favourites.

Damian is thankfully popular enough that he can survive outside of Batman's shadow now and I love to see him in other books and building up relationships outside of his family but it still makes me angry how all the effort of Batman and Robin are ignored. It is however just stupid how much hate some users are spreading.

Well, Duke is not messing with any my favorite characters (they all have solo books), so it's not me being "jealous", but honestly as a character for me he is a ketchup or mayonnaise. Don't go good by himself, not intesring or tasty enough. So, I don't see what "new and interesting" his possible solo could ever bring to Batbooks. On the other hand if it means that we will get rid of him from main Batbooks, I'm okay with it lol

There are almost no "new and interesting" books beside Batman. Nightwing also always suffers from the fact that he is usually doing almost the same as Batman, reason number #73846 why I hate him in Blüdhaven. Batgirl is also doing the same just in a silly and childrish way. If Tim ever gets a solo again he will also be doing the exact same thing. I do agree that Duke works better with others, I would like to see him with Nightwing and Damian. I'm not sure how many solo books the Batman franchise can sell but I wouldn't mind a mini series.

[dietrich]

A) No, he doesn't have a decent following. I once again bring up the poll showing that only 10% of people on these boards like him and over half are indifferent. Almost no one on Twitter or Tumblr talks about him (I've checked) even when an issue of All Star has just come out. Even most of his defenders will admit he's boring or underdeveloped, that is not a sign of a thriving character.

B) People don't hate Duke because of jealousy, he's a genuinely bad and underdeveloped character who is wasting panel time and filling the Bat-books with dead weight. It's a hatred of bad creative decisions and a refusal to learn from mistakes than jealousy. Moments like "Duke is better than Robin" and "Duke is Batman's greatest ally" only make it worse.

You've checked. I would question why you spend your free time checking the internet for mentions or fans of Duke a character you dislike but....

Not jealousy? Yeah right. The guy's solo isn't even out and some are already hoping for the worst. Hoping that a successful Duke solo results in widespread resentment smacks of jealousy to me.

[dietrich]

I saw the interview to where he teases that there maybe a Duke solo, but I he have been saying for a while now that it is something that he wants one of his student to do, after Metal so I don't think it something happening any time soon.

Yeah I saw that too and those new books that are coming are coming after Metal so I think it will be amongst those. I really won't be surprised if it's Tynion

[Assam]

Duke is new and underdeveloped that's why he is getting more and more spotlight. How else do you expect a new character to get decent character development.

A new character definitely needs a push. But what good has the push done for Duke as a character?

Tim was introduced in the pages of Batman, got a few minis, and by the time he got a solo, he was a fully fleshed out character.

Steph, the character never actually MEANT to be part of the Batfamily, appeared in one story, just one, but after Dixon used her again in Robin, there was enough demand for more Steph because of how engaging she was that she just started appearing more in Robin, her appearances slowly becoming more frequent, with her development happening in these stories, until eventually becoming something of a co-star.

Plenty of other examples I could list of well executed introductions of new Batfamily members from both the 90's and even a few cases of more modern times.

I recently read "We Are Robin" for the first time, and while I don't think it was bad at all, if he was the one they wanted to push ,Duke shouldn't have been the least interesting of the Robins in that book. That should have been for Duke what Robin's minis, Huntress's solo book (BTW, great example of a new character starting off in a solo done well, right there), and Sword of Azrael did for their respective new characters. Had it been, who knows? I might be on Duke's side, rather than in the indifferent but frustrated zone.

[Atlanta96]

You've checked. I would question why you spend your free time checking the internet for mentions or fans of Duke a character you dislike but....

Not jealousy? Yeah right. The guy's solo isn't even out and some are already hoping for the worst. Hoping that a successful Duke solo results in widespread resentment smacks of jealousy to me.

A term search takes about 5 minutes total. It's not a significant portion of my free time.

Is criticizing bad creative decisions really jealousy? You've got the Bat-Family in shambles after the New 52, almost no one is as important as they were before the reboot, and instead of fixing things they decide to put all their energy into a nothing of a character nobody asked for? That's just stupid. Hating stupid decisions isn't jealousy.

[Atlanta96]

A) Make up all kind of excuses you want. The poll thing you bring up every time is simply ridiculous so I won't even bother with it. I follow enough people on tumblr, twitter and what not to know that there are enough people who want to see more of Duke. There is a decent amount of people who are interested in him despite all the hate he gets. You are a primary example of such people especially on this forum, you even go so far to bring your hate of his own appreciation thread so yes you are like the least person I want to have this discussion with.

B) Yes it is called jealousy when people complain over and over again how their favorites deserve so much better because they have a larger fanbase and have been around for longer - well yes newsflash these characters also have been created a long time ago compared to Duke. I agree that Duke had a rather bad first impression and character development when he was introduced but right now I like what Snyder is doing with him and I'm willing to give him a 2nd chance.

LOL you know a few people on Tumblr who like Duke that makes a huge difference, but an anonymous poll showing that almost no one likes the guy is completely irrelevant. Come on, you can be better than this.

And once again, hating terrible creative decisions is not jealousy. Especially when the majority of the fandom agrees that those decisions are feces. Hating on terrible characters is admirable work that everyone should join in on.

[Assam]

LOL you know a few people on Tumblr who like Duke that makes a huge difference, but an anonymous poll showing that almost no one likes the guy is completely irrelevant. Come on, you can be better than this.

Dude, I'm saying this as someone whose closest to your side in this discussion: Stop bringing up the poll.

This is just one forum. The number of voters in that one poll was only 114. You HAVE some valid points. Bringing up the poll only serves to weaken your arguments, and makes you seem desperate.

[Atlanta96]

Dude, I'm saying this as someone whose closest to your side in this discussion: Stop bringing up the poll.

This is just one forum. The number of voters in that one poll were only 114. You HAVE some valid points. Bringing up the poll only serves to weaken your arguments, and makes you seem desperate.

Ok, what do you suggest as an alternative?

[skyvolt2000]

We don't know plans for character in Tec could be some are gonna get solo or team up books. Surely if Cass, Steph and Tim got a well written team book you wouldn't resent Duke having a successful solo since you are getting what you want. You have been very vocal about how much you would love such a book.

Violet has her own book and she is new do you resent her? New character's are introduced and given books all the time.

Lets see X-men fans got what they wanted yet still HARASS Inhuman fans and books.

You can give Tim, Cassandra, Batwing and the rest their own books and the same fans will still go ham in their hatred of Duke. Because they want him gone.

And your point about Violet is right. Why does she get a free pass? In fact why does Jessica & Simon get a free pass? While if that was Duke or John Stewart-the outrage would make the Marvel backlash look tame.

She is still taking a book slot from the established guys. Why is she and the Gotham kids immune.

We keep hearing all this crap about pets but Jessica & Simon are PETS as those 2 took Hal's spots in 2 books.

Duke is new and underdeveloped that's why he is getting more and more spotlight. How else do you expect a new character to get decent character development. His creator is also one of DC's top writers and nowadays you have to do more pushing to make a characters success. It makes perfectly sense no matter how much it pisses off other fanbases.

While this is true, it can be done without some of the stuff we have seen.

Tim had consistent development in Batman when he showed up. Followed by 3 minis-1 started 2 years after he appeared. Followed by his own series. No one got screwed over. No one with a hard on for the Silver Age was around. No one viewed this guy or that guy as a threat.

That only happened after certain folks got in charge. Who decided there can only be one-as you see with Barry Allen, Wally West & Fake Wally. Or Cyborg the only black guy with a solo and the worst trade sales of all minority characters at DC.

If we were back in the 90s-

Duke pops up in Batman. Gets a story in DC SHowcase. Gets a series. He might pop up in Young Justice.

All this happens and not at the expense of Tim nor Stephanie nor Cassandra.