Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Assam]

Ok, what do you suggest as an alternative?

Pretty much everything else you say. You make your points in a very heated way, and that turns some people off (I completely understand why you're so passionate though ), but ignoring the pathos behind your rhetoric, all of your points besides the poll are valid to some degree.

[nightbird]

There are almost no "new and interesting" books beside Batman. Nightwing also always suffers from the fact that he is usually doing almost the same as Batman, reason number #73846 why I hate him in Blüdhaven. Batgirl is also doing the same just in a silly and childrish way. If Tim ever gets a solo again he will also be doing the exact same thing. I do agree that Duke works better with others, I would like to see him with Nightwing and Damian. I'm not sure how many solo books the Batman franchise can sell but I wouldn't mind a mini series.

Dick is different from Batman, he does suffer most of the time from the fact that he tied down to Bat mythology and DC afraid to push him too much, so nothing important ever happens in his books (also Nu52 messed up him a lot), but honestly you don't read his book thinking "that what Batman would do, this is exactly Batman story here", no matter how much you associate Bludhaven with Gotham. Same with Batgirl. Now Duke has nothing to offer that other Batkids can't offer. This is my problem with the guy. He is "been there, done this". With so many predecessors I bet it was a hard task to come up with something new for another Bat sidekick, yet not impossible, instead they went and created Duke. He has mediocrity written all over him and excuse me if I'm not found of having him around in books that I read.
That being said, he can have this solo. I personally don't think it would work, but there is a room to prove me wrong, also I can always drop it or never pick it up in the first place. And I guess his fans should have a chance to show support and love for their favorite character.

[Atlanta96]

Pretty much everything else you say. You make your points in a very heated way, and that turns some people off (I completely understand why you're so passionate though ), but ignoring the pathos behind your rhetoric, all of your points besides the poll are valid to some degree.

So the lack of enthusiasm or discussion about Duke on social media, poor sales of We are Robin, overexposure of the character and un-earned inclusion in a major event, and points regarding his writing and development are all valid?

Now Duke has nothing to offer that other Batkids can't offer. This is my problem with the guy. He is "been there, done this". With so many predecessors I bet it was a hard task to come up with something new for another Bat sidekick, yet not impossible, instead they went and created Duke. He has mediocrity written all over him and excuse me if I'm not found of having him around in books that I read.

You're wrong, he has radar sense. That makes him totally unique different from everyone else and he will carve out his own special role in the DCU because of it. Checkmate, haters!

[Assam]

So the lack of enthusiasm or discussion about Duke on social media, poor sales of We are Robin, overexposure of the character and un-earned inclusion in a major event, and points regarding his writing and development are all valid?

To VERY different degrees, I'd say yes. (Please don't ask which ones I view as the most and least valid. I honestly don't feel like breaking that down right now)

[ZuLuLu]

Dude, I'm saying this as someone whose closest to your side in this discussion: Stop bringing up the poll.

This is just one forum. The number of voters in that one poll was only 114. You HAVE some valid points. Bringing up the poll only serves to weaken your arguments, and makes you seem desperate.

I voted indifferent on that poll and I actually like Duke.

I don't think Duke is that popular, but he does have a growing fan base and I also know that DC is getting enough good feedback from fans who like the character that it have caught their attention,it was editorial who pushed Snyder, to make him a bigger part of the Dark Days story. This was not simply Snyder forcing his "pet" character into a story, he was always going to be there but editorial decided that they want some of the things that was planned for him to happen on a bigger stage and not in a backup.

[nightbird]

Lets see X-men fans got what they wanted yet still HARASS Inhuman fans and books.

This is the saddest thing that I've ever read lmfao /s/

[Assam]

This is the saddest thing that I've ever read lmfao /s/

I take it you haven't read about anything involving America in the past year, have you?

[nightbird]

You're wrong, he has radar sense. That makes him totally unique different from everyone else and he will carve out his own special role in the DCU because of it. Checkmate, haters!

Oh yeah. Totally forget about it. Now he is for sure "better than Robin" and you bet I'm jealous.

I take it you haven't read about anything involving America in the past year, have you?

I did. But I have China and Russia around myself to cry about first. You guys too far from me

[dietrich]

A term search takes about 5 minutes total. It's not a significant portion of my free time.

Is criticizing bad creative decisions really jealousy? You've got the Bat-Family in shambles after the New 52, almost no one is as important as they were before the reboot, and instead of fixing things they decide to put all their energy into a nothing of a character nobody asked for? That's just stupid. Hating stupid decisions isn't jealousy.

No criticising bad creative decisions isn't jealousy. However I call shenanigans and say I don't believe you when you say there is no jealousy.

Dick is different from Batman, he does suffer most of the time from the fact that he tied down to Bat mythology and DC afraid to push him too much, so nothing important ever happens in his books (also Nu52 messed up him a lot), but honestly you don't read his book thinking "that what Batman would do, this is exactly Batman story here", no matter how much you associate Bludhaven with Gotham. Same with Batgirl. Now Duke has nothing to offer that other Batkids can't offer. This is my problem with the guy. He is "been there, done this". With so many predecessors I bet it was a hard task to come up with something new for another Bat sidekick, yet not impossible, instead they went and created Duke. He has mediocrity written all over him and excuse me if I'm not found of having him around in books that I read.
That being said, he can have this solo. I personally don't think it would work, but there is a room to prove me wrong, also I can always drop it or never pick it up in the first place. And I guess his fans should have a chance to show support and love for their favorite character.

The guy is barely in two books!
Well Duke had WAR that was different and wouldn't have been the same with any other of the Batkids, Now we might have Dayman or this new Meta stuff. Point is why don't you wait to see what their big reveal is before you write him off. This new direction might just wow you.

From small acorns dude.

[dietrich]

I voted indifferent on that poll and I actually like Duke.

I don't think Duke is that popular, but he does have a growing fan base and I also know that DC is getting enough good feedback from fans who like the character that it have caught their attention,it was editorial who pushed Snyder, to make him a bigger part of the Dark Days story. This was not simply Snyder forcing his "pet" character into a story, he was always going to be there but editorial decided that they want some of the things that was planned for him to happen on a bigger stage and not in a backup.

That's what Synder said but me thinks that Synder helped convince them. Though Duke a black character taking off is a big win for DC.

[nightbird]

The guy is barely in two books!
Well Duke had WAR that was different and wouldn't have been the same with any other of the Batkids, Now we might have Dayman or this new Meta stuff. Point is why don't you wait to see what their big reveal is before you write him off. This new direction might just wow you.

From small acorns dude.

I still read that two books.
I remember not liking WAR and him being the weakest link in it.
As I said, there is a room to prove me wrong. But as we're talking right now, he is not pushing the envelope.

[dietrich]

Look, I GET that it's impossible to please everyone, because obviously, everyone has different tastes. If Tim, Cass, and Steph got their team book, who knows, maybe die hard Batwing fans would resent them.

I've gone over before how every major Batfam member could be included in an equally spaced book, while still keeping the total number of Batbooks under 10. There IS a way to give the fans of ALL these characters a decent amount of time with them each month.

I don't resent Violet, no. 1) Because she's not Batfamily, 2) Because from what I've heard she's got an interesting personality and backstory, and 3) Because up until just now, since I pay very little attention to Young Animal, I didn't even realize she was a Gotham based character.

Quite the Artful dodger aren't you.

[ZuLuLu]

That's what Synder said but me thinks that Synder helped convince them. Though Duke a black character taking off is a big win for DC.

Agreed I don't believe that Snyder had no role in convincing them, companies to look at feedback and from why I heard it has been mostly positive and they are getting interest from young new readers which what comic companies like to hear.

It is not like it was with Harper, they were getting positive feedback from her also but there was also a huge backlash because of the lack of Cass and Steph. Duke is not really getting any real backlash even though Tim is not around. I think most fans don't connect the absence of Tim to Duke, the way they did with the absence of Steph and ass to Harper.

[Atlanta96]

That's what Synder said but me thinks that Synder helped convince them. Though Duke a black character taking off is a big win for DC.

Of course he did. DC didn't call him up out of nowhere and tell him to push Duke even harder, it's all Snyder's doing.

[skyvolt2000]

I recently read "We Are Robin" for the first time, and while I don't think it was bad at all, if he was the one they wanted to push ,Duke shouldn't have been the least interesting of the Robins in that book. That should have been for Duke what Robin's minis, Huntress's solo book (BTW, great example of a new character starting off in a solo done well, right there), and Sword of Azrael did for their respective new characters. Had it been, who knows? I might be on Duke's side, rather than in the indifferent but frustrated zone.

Glad someone else noticed that too.

With the way that book was promoted-you thought it was about him not the others. While falls on DC editors for not doing their jobs.

Especially when the majority of the fandom agrees that those decisions are feces. Hating on terrible characters is admirable work that everyone should join in on.

What majority?

So have you met every single comic book fan on this planet we called Earth?

What defines a terrible character? I know plenty of folks who HATE Hal Jordan, Real Wally West, Superman, Batman and so on.

If you listen to X-Men fans its all Inhumans.

If you listen to certain retailers its' any book that stars a POC, LGBT & women.

So if we don't listen to them why would we listen to you?

Because if I look at Amazon.com sales of superhero trades who outsells every single DC character not named Batman or Flash-some minority named Black Panther with 3 top 20 books and one in the top 10(at one point) . He outsells all the X-Men too. 5 in the top 300.

And Duke's We Are Robin trades are doing better then Tim & Damian's trades. In fact they are doing better than face of black heroes Cyborg whose trades are below 3,000.

SOOO whose right this forum or all those folks who bought those trades? So all 100,000+ folks who bought We Are Robin have bad taste?

I think Dc will pay attention to Amazon.com.

s criticizing bad creative decisions really jealousy?

When you OBSESS over it-it is. It's X-Men behavior. It's Rich Rider behavior. To constantly attack a character to the point no one can have a civil discussion.

You've got the Bat-Family in shambles after the New 52, almost no one is as important as they were before the reboot, and instead of fixing things they decide to put all their energy into a nothing of a character nobody asked for? That's just stupid. Hating stupid decisions isn't jealousy.

Nobody asked for Mother Panic. Yet she gets a free pass.
Nobody wants Cyborg in Justice League.
Nobody wanted John, Kyle & Guy stuck in a book with Hal.
Nobody asked for ANY of the Hanna Barbera books.
Nobody asked for the Dark Matter books.
Yet they are all around.

The Bat family is a mess because certain folks with POWER caused it. Who ruined Tim's generation? Who got into it with Cassandra & Stephanie fans?

It wasn't Duke Thomas. This mess started long before Snyder got hired.

Take your rage out on those who DESERVE it. Funny Johns, Dan & Jim Lee get free passes.

Failure of the pass are now issues of today.