Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[dietrich]

Agreed I don't believe that Snyder had no role in convincing them, companies to look at feedback and from why I heard it has been mostly positive and they are getting interest from young new readers which what comic companies like to hear.

It is not like it was with Harper, they were getting positive feedback from her also but there was also a huge backlash because of the lack of Cass and Steph. Duke is not really getting any real backlash even though Tim is not around. I think most fans don't connect the absence of Tim to Duke, the way they did with the absence of Steph and ass to Harper.

What they did with Harper in BRE was very stupid and a kick in the crotch to Robin fans. When I heard that better than Robin line I feared he was about to do the same with Duke.

I hope Synder does pass Duke on to someone else cos honestly that guy is Duke's biggest problem.
He works so hard to alienate the character from the rest of the batfamily and that creates a divide. We need more scenes like the batboys at lunch and his cinema scene with Damian from Robin War.

If Duke had more interaction or a semblance of a relationship with Tim, Steph and Cass I bet some of their fans would warm to him and he needs to quit with the fan favourite nonsense. Duke isn't there yet but his fans are growing everyday.

Honestly find Duke boring under Synder [aside from the issue where he went to the youth centre] I enjoy him the most when written by others.

[Aioros22]

Logical step...

Attachment 48743

[ZuLuLu]

Of course he did. DC didn't call him up out of nowhere and tell him to push Duke even harder, it's all Snyder's doing.

Not that I am saying I believe this is what happen in this case but that actually happens.

While Snyder is their star writer and he get some leeway, editorial does have some control over him and what character he can use and where they can be used. For example, directions and plans he and other writers had for both Steph and Harper where changed last year due to what editorial wanted.

This is why we often hear that a writer might be planning to do this and that and it never comes into being because if editorial what to shift director they can.

Yes, if they wanted to during an editorial meeting they would say we would like you to use this character here instead or think this would be the best place to develop this character, this happens all the time.

DC likes Snyder because he is a team player and he sells but he have not even reached the level of control Morrison had over characters directions in terms of being able to do what he wants.

[Atlanta96]

What they did with Harper in BRE was very stupid and a kick in the crotch to Robin fans. When I heard that better than Robin line I feared he was about to do the same with Duke.

I hope Synder does pass Duke on to someone else cos honestly that guy is Duke's biggest problem.
He works so hard to alienate the character from the rest of the batfamily and that creates a divide. We need more scenes like the batboys at lunch and his cinema scene with Damian from Robin War.

If Duke had more interaction or a semblance of a relationship with Tim, Steph and Cass I bet some of their fans would warm to him and he needs to quit with the fan favourite nonsense. Duke isn't there yet but his fans are growing everyday.

Honestly find Duke boring under Synder [aside from the issue where he went to the youth centre] I enjoy him the most when written by others.

"Fans are growing everyday"

LOL based on what? What is happening in the Bat-books that is winning readers over to his side every day? You yourself say he is boring under Snyder, the one writer who regularly uses him anymore. His fans are a vast minority on every platform from Twitter to CBR and even diversity obsessed Tumblr. It's almost a year into Rebirth and his situation hasn't changed a bit, if anything the number of readers willing to give him a chance has probably shrunk.

[btmarine23]

Glad someone else noticed that too.

With the way that book was promoted-you thought it was about him not the others. While falls on DC editors for not doing their jobs.




What majority?

So have you met every single comic book fan on this planet we called Earth?

What defines a terrible character? I know plenty of folks who HATE Hal Jordan, Real Wally West, Superman, Batman and so on.

If you listen to X-Men fans its all Inhumans.

If you listen to certain retailers its' any book that stars a POC, LGBT & women.

So if we don't listen to them why would we listen to you?

Because if I look at Amazon.com sales of superhero trades who outsells every single DC character not named Batman or Flash-some minority named Black Panther with 3 top 20 books and one in the top 10(at one point) . He outsells all the X-Men too. 5 in the top 300.

And Duke's We Are Robin trades are doing better then Tim & Damian's trades. In fact they are doing better than face of black heroes Cyborg whose trades are below 3,000.

SOOO whose right this forum or all those folks who bought those trades? So all 100,000+ folks who bought We Are Robin have bad taste?

I think Dc will pay attention to Amazon.com.



When you OBSESS over it-it is. It's X-Men behavior. It's Rich Rider behavior. To constantly attack a character to the point no one can have a civil discussion.



Nobody asked for Mother Panic. Yet she gets a free pass.
Nobody wants Cyborg in Justice League.
Nobody wanted John, Kyle & Guy stuck in a book with Hal.
Nobody asked for ANY of the Hanna Barbera books.
Nobody asked for the Dark Matter books.
Yet they are all around.

The Bat family is a mess because certain folks with POWER caused it. Who ruined Tim's generation? Who got into it with Cassandra & Stephanie fans?

It wasn't Duke Thomas. This mess started long before Snyder got hired.

Take your rage out on those who DESERVE it. Funny Johns, Dan & Jim Lee get free passes.

Failure of the pass are now issues of today.

Did Batwing have a solo comic well before Duke? How does his TPB sell?

[dietrich]

"Fans are growing everyday"

LOL based on what? What is happening in the Bat-books that is winning readers over to his side every day? You yourself say he is boring under Snyder, the one writer who regularly uses him anymore. His fans are a vast minority on every platform from Twitter to CBR and even diversity obsessed Tumblr. It's almost a year into Rebirth and his situation hasn't changed a bit, if anything the number of readers willing to give him a chance has probably shrunk.

Maybe I shouldn't say everyday since i really don't have any facts to back that up. Unlike some I don't devote 5 mins of my day to investigating Duke on the Internet. I have however noticed increased support for him on this site.

[Atlanta96]

Maybe I shouldn't say everyday since i really don't have any facts to back that up. Unlike some I don't devote 5 mins of my day to investigating Duke on the Internet. I have however noticed increased support for him on this site.

Reading old posts, I can't find anyone on this site who supports this character who didn't back in 2016. Unsurprising, considering his lack of development and unique traits.

[Atlanta96]

Glad someone else noticed that too.

With the way that book was promoted-you thought it was about him not the others. While falls on DC editors for not doing their jobs.




What majority?

So have you met every single comic book fan on this planet we called Earth?

What defines a terrible character? I know plenty of folks who HATE Hal Jordan, Real Wally West, Superman, Batman and so on.

If you listen to X-Men fans its all Inhumans.

If you listen to certain retailers its' any book that stars a POC, LGBT & women.

So if we don't listen to them why would we listen to you?

Because if I look at Amazon.com sales of superhero trades who outsells every single DC character not named Batman or Flash-some minority named Black Panther with 3 top 20 books and one in the top 10(at one point) . He outsells all the X-Men too. 5 in the top 300.

And Duke's We Are Robin trades are doing better then Tim & Damian's trades. In fact they are doing better than face of black heroes Cyborg whose trades are below 3,000.

SOOO whose right this forum or all those folks who bought those trades? So all 100,000+ folks who bought We Are Robin have bad taste?

I think Dc will pay attention to Amazon.com.



When you OBSESS over it-it is. It's X-Men behavior. It's Rich Rider behavior. To constantly attack a character to the point no one can have a civil discussion.



Nobody asked for Mother Panic. Yet she gets a free pass.
Nobody wants Cyborg in Justice League.
Nobody wanted John, Kyle & Guy stuck in a book with Hal.
Nobody asked for ANY of the Hanna Barbera books.
Nobody asked for the Dark Matter books.
Yet they are all around.

The Bat family is a mess because certain folks with POWER caused it. Who ruined Tim's generation? Who got into it with Cassandra & Stephanie fans?

It wasn't Duke Thomas. This mess started long before Snyder got hired.

Take your rage out on those who DESERVE it. Funny Johns, Dan & Jim Lee get free passes.

Failure of the pass are now issues of today.

Skyvolt, I just checked Amazon. We Are Robin vol 1 currently ranks at #409 in DC Comics. Batman Beyond vol 1 with Tim Drake, the one that pissed off thousands of fans by killing off Terry, ranks at #239 in DC Comics. You said WaR trades sold better than Tim's trades. Why did you lie?

[skyvolt2000]

That's what Synder said but me thinks that Synder helped convince them. Though Duke a black character taking off is a big win for DC.

Not really as DC's track record with black sis BAD.

They had access to Static. Who could wipe the floor with Miles Morales. Kids were going NUTS that he was in Young Justice yet we saw how that ended.

John Stewart-I don't even want to go there.

Vixen-see John

Black Lightning-if we were about BUSINESS-those issues with Tony would have been dealt with EARLIER.

Batwing-either one.

Steel-most successful black male lead and can't sniff a new series.

Cyborg-a JOKE who is fighting Static/TMNT/Ben 10 & Power Ranger villains in his book.

Yes Snyder did convince them-I will not debate that with anyone. You can't sit at DC HQ and see Black Panther, Sam Wilson, Miles Morales, Mosaic, Flint, Blue Marvel, Nick Fury Jr, Luke Cage and add in the tv debuts of Night Trasher, Alex Wilder & Cloak and be happy. In 6 years (7 if you count the tv shows) all these guys have done MORE than every single black character at DC.

Cyborg got beat by MOON GIRL.

So yes Snyder saw this as a shot to get HIS creation that top black male (teen) hero slot. I would have done the SAME thing except I would not have done it at the expense of others.

I would have done the backups in All Star. Main part of that book belongs to BATMAN only. Duke arc ends at issue 7 and one of the girls get the new back up.

Batman book him, Tim & Duke and if Tim had to go a better focus on him. Arc 2 would have been Bane storyline and arc 3 leads up with Duke and Metal.

I probably would have fought for a book with Tim, Cass, Steph & Duke. That would focus on development for all of them.

[dietrich]

Reading old posts, I can't find anyone on this site who supports this character who didn't back in 2016. Unsurprising, considering his lack of development and unique traits.

That's a lie. i joined up in late 2016 and had my 1st debate with you around that time and have noticed new voices pitching in to voice their support. Heck there are new members who joined this year who have voiced their support for the character.

[Assam]

I probably would have fought for a book with Tim, Cass, Steph & Duke. That would focus on development for all of them.

Throw Harper in there, and you've got your five teenagers with attitude ready to become the Power Rangers! XD Seriously, they're color coded, Duke's suit looks like some Power Rangers uniforms already (And actually as a huge PR fan I dig that), and as seen in Monster Men, the Batfamily has Zords! It's perfect!

Really though, at this point, Duke NEEDS more relationships in the Batfam. The fast food restaurant scene is the best thing to come out King's run!

Just look at Clayface, an even NEWER addition the Family. Being re-introduced in a team book meant he could instantly start making relationships, and both his development on his own during the Victim Syndicate, as well as his interactions with Bruce, Cass, and Luke have all helped to flesh out the character.

Honestly, while seeing Duke interact with my favorites on a team COULD actually be cool so long as they didn't make him consistently look better than the others, I'd settle just for having Duke's back-up stories be Brave and the Bold style. Introduce him to the rest of the Family one by one in short team-ups.

[Atlanta96]

That's a lie. i joined up in late 2016 and had my 1st debate with you around that time and have noticed new voices pitching in to voice their support. Heck there are new members who joined this year who have voiced their support for the character.

Well if they're new members then they weren't on these boards at that time, were they?

[dietrich]

Not really as DC's track record with black sis BAD.

They had access to Static. Who could wipe the floor with Miles Morales. Kids were going NUTS that he was in Young Justice yet we saw how that ended.

John Stewart-I don't even want to go there.

Vixen-see John

Black Lightning-if we were about BUSINESS-those issues with Tony would have been dealt with EARLIER.

Batwing-either one.

Steel-most successful black male lead and can't sniff a new series.

Cyborg-a JOKE who is fighting Static/TMNT/Ben 10 & Power Ranger villains in his book.

Yes Snyder did convince them-I will not debate that with anyone. You can't sit at DC HQ and see Black Panther, Sam Wilson, Miles Morales, Mosaic, Flint, Blue Marvel, Nick Fury Jr, Luke Cage and add in the tv debuts of Night Trasher, Alex Wilder & Cloak and be happy. In 6 years (7 if you count the tv shows) all these guys have done MORE than every single black character at DC.

Cyborg got beat by MOON GIRL.

So yes Snyder saw this as a shot to get HIS creation that top black male (teen) hero slot. I would have done the SAME thing except I would not have done it at the expense of others.

I would have done the backups in All Star. Main part of that book belongs to BATMAN only. Duke arc ends at issue 7 and one of the girls get the new back up.

Batman book him, Tim & Duke and if Tim had to go a better focus on him. Arc 2 would have been Bane storyline and arc 3 leads up with Duke and Metal.

I probably would have fought for a book with Tim, Cass, Steph & Duke. That would focus on development for all of them.

So a black character taking off is not a win for DC?

[Assam]

That's a lie. i joined up in late 2016 and had my 1st debate with you around that time and have noticed new voices pitching in to voice their support. Heck there are new members who joined this year who have voiced their support for the character.

Yeah, Dietrich is definitely right here. I only joined the forum a few months ago, but I've been following threads as a non-member for around a year. It's not a massive amount or anything, but there are definitely more Duke supporters these days.

[dietrich]

Well if they're new members then they weren't on these boards at that time, were they?

Exactly so they are new voices showing support and that is increased support to the few when I joined.