Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[The Duke]

Batman as a character has not been enjoyable for some years now. I remember they killed him off because everyone was tired of writing him and then he's just being written awfully similar to how he used to be.

[Rakiduam]

Well, it seems pretty clear that TPTB seem to think Dick's redundant considering they took him out of a costume altogether. That isn't a diss, btw. Dick's one of my favorite characters. It just seems as if no one has any idea of what to do with him. With Tim they at least have a pretty decent idea.

Well, DiDio IS tptb so yeah.

[phonogram12]

Well, DiDio IS tptb so yeah.

Exactly my point. That doesn't really reflect on the quality of either Dick or Tim, though.

[t hedge coke]

The idea that a new Robin somehow cancels out old Robins, or a new/alternate reality's Robin cancels out another reality's Robin is just ridiculous.

The idea that too many characters in the bat-universe waters down Batman is silly. Too many characters in one comic, one story, sure, maybe, but across all Batman or Batman-related stories?

"Robin needs to be a boy because little boys" trades on the idea that a new Robin/different Robin would somehow erase previous Robins from existence or memory and that's just silly. We've had kid Robins, adult Robins, boys, girls, clones, dinosaurs, robot Robins, former Robins and current Robins, and none of them have ever caused a single Dick Grayson story to evaporate out of existence.

Batman is best when he can smile and when he can appreciate others. When he has a range of emotions and acts as a force for positivity, not a whiny eidolon.

Anyone who thinks Barbara as Batgirl was a weak failure hasn't really read many Barbara as Batgirl stories. She was a genius politician with a motorcycle who ran alongside Batman and Robin with minimal training and no fortune to fund her.

Both Helena Wayne and Helena Bertinelli are great.

Oracle is best when she's still physically capable of kicking ass (see JLA: WW3 or the Red Robin arc where she took out R'as' assassins before her backup got there).

Denny O'Neil writes a better Batman in prose than in comics.

Birds of Prey was a great tv show and Harley was much better for not being incompetent-genius with a bunch of pratfalls.

[dupersuper]

The Robins are also all white males (Damian being a slight exception) with black hair.

Jason being a slight exception...

I remember they killed him off because everyone was tired of writing him

They what now?

[SiegePerilous02]

I'd put Alfred and Gordon both way above Dick.

I thought the term "Batfamily" generally encompasses the costumed sidekicks and other vigilantes? If we're going by that criteria, my original statement still stands.

Otherwise, yeah I totally agree, Alfred and Gordon > Dick in terms of importance.

[Lorendiac]

Controversial opinions? Okay, I'll dust off a few -- most of which I have expressed in the past on the old CBR forums.

1. Barbara Gordon is my favorite former Batgirl, but she should never have reverted to that role all over again.

2. Likewise, Dick Grayson is my favorite former Robin, but Tim Drake is his most worthy replacement, and should have stayed in that role instead of "moving on" to that silly "Red Robin" identity.

3. Cassandra Cain should still be Batgirl today. (But she should also be well-written, and how often has that happened to her in the last eight years? So maybe she's better off staying out of sight for the time being until things have changed sufficiently at DC for her to get some respect under a new editorial regime.)

4. Jim Starlin's "A Death in the Family" was one of the most clumsily-plotted "epic Batman story arcs" that the world has ever endured. (Which is really saying something!)

5. Despite the above, after Jason Todd was killed off in "A Death in the Family," he should have stayed dead, plain and simple. The only acceptable excuse for bringing him back would be if the Batman Canon got Totally Rebooted so that "A Death in the Family" had never even happened in the first place and Jason was "starting all over again!"

6. Jeph Loeb is a pretty good writer of Big Batman Epics, except for his strange inability to satisfactorily "resolve" the mystery and suspense and various loose ends from the previous chapters when he is phoning in the dialogue for his "Grand Finale." Since he creates those mysteries and such himself, you'd think he'd know how to tie them up in a logical way at the end of the story, wouldn't you? (But you'd be wrong! )

7. Doug Moench got off to a superb start when he began his first big run as a Batman writer in the mid-1980s. However, most of his second big run in the 1990s was mediocre.

8. Finally getting his own solo "Nightwing" title in the mid-1990s was one of the worst things that ever happened to Dick Grayson. Chuck Dixon's treatment of him over the next few years just made him come across as "Batman Lite," and who needs that when the real Batman is available?

9. I own all three seasons of "Batman Beyond" on DVD, but even when I'm watching several of them in the same evening, I've never yet been able to think of the star of the show as really being "Batman." As "Batman Beyond," yes. As "Terry McGinnis," yes. But to call him "Batman" with a straight face? No. In fact, there was one episode (I forget the title) in which it was announced that the GCPD now had an arrest order out for "Batman," and I swear to you that my first thought was: "Whoa! Commissioner Barbara Gordon is finally planning to arrest her old friend Bruce?" It was only about ten seconds later that I realized that "Batman" in this context meant Terry and nobody else -- because that sure wasn't what it meant in my mind!

10. On the other hand, the show "Batman: The Brave and the Bold" should still be coming out regularly today with new episodes. (I want to see Music Meister make a big comeback! The poor guy only got one episode, even though it was one of the best things that show -- or any Batman animated series -- ever did!)

[The Red Monk]

As for my unpopular opinions:

1) Dick Grayson is the only decent Robin. Everyone else has barely interested me.

2) I don't give a **** about the Batgirls either way, but Barbara Gordon is the only one I've ever remotely cared about.

3) Cassandra Cain should not be part of the Bat-Family. She was shoe-horned in, and she sticks out like a sore thumb. To top that off, she's just not a very good character.

4) Tim Drake should have been "disappeared" in the New 52.

5) Jason Todd works best either dead, or as the "black sheep" anti-thesis to Dick, who abandoned Batman. Hell, he'd make the perfect arch-rival for Grayson that way.

6) Stephanie Brown was OK as Spoiler, terrible as Robin, and "meh" as Batgirl.

7) Catwoman should ditch the anti-hero shtick already, and go back to being an amoral thief who only looks out for herself. DC has been trying to make her a goody two-shoes for years, and nothing remotely interesting has come out of it.

8) Helena Bertinelli is annoying.

9) Batwoman should be to Batman what Spider-Woman is to Spider-Man - the only thing they share is the name.

10) Instead of costumed allies, how about we give Batman more civillian allies instead? He has far too many of the former, and not nearly enough of the latter.

[The Duke]

They what now?

That's what I was told by a D.C. hireling I met in the U.S. back when D.C. was about to do final crisis. They said that he was carrying too much baggage, which just makes me laugh now with the top heavy new 52.

[Magnum Valentino]

Batman is best when he can smile and when he can appreciate others. When he has a range of emotions and acts as a force for positivity, not a whiny eidolon.

Brave And The Bold #100 is a great comic because Batman's confined to a wheelchair and he gets Robin, Green Arrow, Green Lantern and Black Canary to help him out and is super appreciative of it. He even uses the word 'chum'. Whenever I think of modern Batman, it's that issue that makes me pine for the old days in comparison.

[Shadowcat]

I didn't care for Morrison's Batman. The man is a wonderfully creative writer, his Batman just didn't connect with me.

[Shadowcat]

Common misconception, but untrue. It's actually more around 2%.

I'm going to need to see where your statistics come from. Most of the studies I've read place it around 5-10%.

[Diggy]

Red Hood is too good right now. Someone should write a major Batman storyline where he ventures back into a darker area. I dont want him as a complete villain but he should be closer to villain than hero.

[Aioros22]

More unpopular opinions:

Batman: Shaman is more entertaining than Batman: Year One.

Batman: the Dark Knight Strikes Again is one of the best straight-face comments on modern popular culture. It`s among Miller`s best writting. It`s pure, it`s raw.

Jason Todd is more interesting and entertaining to read than any other "Robin". Dick comes second and mostly because of his former TT run.

New52 Jason is by far the most balanced write up on the character and a nice progression on Winnick`s/Nicieza and Morrison (Batman:INC) ideas.

I like the idea of Joker having a stronger connection to Jason beyond the crowbar and I like the idea of the black sheep being the prodigial son on certain matters.

[chipsnopotatoes]

7) Catwoman should ditch the anti-hero shtick already, and go back to being an amoral thief who only looks out for herself. DC has been trying to make her a goody two-shoes for years, and nothing remotely interesting has come out of it.
.

I agree. Nu52 Cats like a little tabby cat right now. And this obsessed by Batman is stupid. Whoever thought up this direction for her deserves a big fat pink slip.

She can be an accidental good guy, but only if it aligns with her interest. Her first priority should be herself, not mole people from the Gotham underground (which I assume is the nu52's version of the East End).

Earth 2 Cats deserves her own book. Nu52 Cats, not so much.