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  1. #1321
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Ok, i will go nuts

    Kill all the brats in the most brutal of ways, Lone wolf Batman all the way !
    I agree just to show how dangerous Batman's villains both major and minor are (and you could reverse it by having Batman forced Superman into rotating the planet by a day lol)

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I actually think that should have been the case, because it makes the heroes look irresponsible otherwise. Or better yet, never kill off Jason in the first place and allow audiences to continue suspending their disbelief with teen sidekicks being a good idea. It sucked the fun out of things, casts a pall over everything that came before and after, and gives Bruce dead kid baggage to angst about. No thank you.
    I agree, would have never killed Jason. But i also would have never had Jason kill in the first place. That to me is the moment the character was fucked, the crowbar was just a formality.

  3. #1323
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    If Jason had been given the rollout and promotion Tim got at his debut, the character wouldn't have been considered a "failure." I'm so glad he's coming into his own now; he deserves it after decades of raw deals at DC.

  4. #1324
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    Damien needs to be killed off or at least his true parentage needs to be revealed that he's not Bruce's biological son. I know that it will tarnish the character of Talia. But the horse has already left the barn on that one thanks to Grant Morrison. Batwoman is nothing but a shoehorned PC/SJW character, there was no reason for her to be added. Since Selina's friend Holly already checked the LGBTQ box. Further I find her origin a turn off, She's an irresponsible teenage woman. At least Holly admitted her mistakes and chose to grow. Chuck Dixon needs to be brought back to write Nightwing. Ditto for Greg Rucka on Batman. No writer should be able to write Batman without filling out a questionnaire about who they think Batman is. Batman is not a one dimensional angry thug who throws in the towel at the slightest sign of adversity and looses his **** when some woman dumps him. He's a self made, focused, brilliant strategist and renaissance man who has a zest for life. He is not a burnt out middle aged man with failed dreams.

  5. #1325
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Batwoman is nothing but a shoehorned PC/SJW character, there was no reason for her to be added.
    That is completely wrong in every single sense.

    Since Selina's friend Holly already checked the LGBTQ box.
    Because multiple LGBT+ characters is just unrealistic, right?

    Further I find her origin a turn off, She's an irresponsible teenage woman. At least Holly admitted her mistakes and chose to grow.
    I don't think you've read much Batwoman if you think this is true. Kate has absolutely grown from her prior irresponsibility.
    Last edited by Caivu; 03-18-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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  6. #1326
    Astonishing Member Vinsanity's Avatar
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    I would love to see Kate do more with the wider DCverse. There is so much potential for the character with her origin, learnings and stuff.

  7. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    That is completely wrong in every single sense.
    .
    She isn't a shoehorned?

    Let's see, Kate gets herself kicked out of WP by publicly making out with her girlfriend during the entire 'don't ask don't tell' era of the US military. Did she not think anyone was going to see her? She's supposed to be an officer in the military, is she going to make those kind of reckless decisions and get her people killed?

    Also she must have known that she would have to graduate from USMA and do her military obligations or else she would have to pay the government. for the full four years. Who would have to re-fund the money to the US government if she didn't graduate and full fill her military obligations. The last I heard it's at least half a million dollars dollars to sen she expect would pay back the government?Her family. That's not the behaviour of responsible adult. That's a woman child...and not at all heroic. At least Holly made no excuses for her drug taking.

    Also she claims that she wants to serve. But we're supposed to believe that becoming a superhero is the only option she had. Kate could easily have finished her degree and joined the FBI or the CIA or joined some other law enforcement agency. That's why I say that she's nothing but a shoehorned SJW/PC character. Bruce became Batman because he found that there were things that the cops couldn't do and if he joined the FBI he would have to go where the agency sent him.
    Last edited by Mia; 03-19-2019 at 06:59 AM.

  8. #1328
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    Let's see, Kate gets herself kicked out of WP by publicly making out with her girlfriend during the entire 'don't ask don't tell' era of the US military. Did she not think anyone was going to see her?
    Yes...? Or else she wouldn't have kissed her. It was evening, in a private-ish area of the campus, during a weekend when many cadets were going home to visit.

    Plus, we don't know the specifics of the accusation brought up against her.

    She's supposed to be an officer in the military, is she going to make those kind of reckless decisions and get her people killed?
    Gasp. A 20-year-old makes a risky decision. Stop the presses.
    And this situation is in no way comparable to making life-or-death decisions on a battlefield. Seriously?

    she must have known that she would have to graduate from USMA and do her military obligations or else she would have to pay the government. for the full four years. Who would have to re-fund the money to the US government if she didn't graduate and full fill her military obligations. The last I heard it's at least half a million dollars dollars to sen she expect would pay back the government?Her family. That's not the behaviour of responsible adult. That's a woman child...and not at all heroic.
    It absolutely is heroic. Kate's decision to resign, rather than lie and take the easy way out, prevented a larger investigation that would have outed not only her but Sophie and any other LGBT cadets. That's why she asks BTO Reyes if she was the only one under suspicion.

    And yeah, she would have to repay the Academy, that's true. But as Jacob said to her, her decision let her keep her integrity. That's worth way more than a measley half a mil. It's worth, to Kate, even more than her very future.

    Also she claims that she wants to serve. But we're supposed to believe that becoming a superhero is the only option she had. Kate could easily have finished her degree and joined the FBI or the CIA or joined some other law enforcement agency.
    It was the only option she had. She tried to finish her degree, but military service had been her only dream, and having that suddenly gone sent her on a fast downward spiral.

    That's why I say that she's nothing but a shoehorned SJW/PC character. Bruce became Batman because he found that there were things that the cops couldn't do and if he joined the FBI he would have to go where the agency sent him.
    I don't follow your logic of how that's supposed to make Kate shoehorned or SJW/PC. What do Bruce's motives have anything to do with this?
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  9. #1329
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    Dick is a better head of the Bat Family than Bruce.

    Trying to call Batman, and Gotham in general, more "grounded" than other parts of the DC Universe is bull. Super zombies, a woman that can control most plant life out there, a mud man that can grow as big as a kaiju that is immune to most ways of being neutralized, a vigilante that can supposedly beat anyone with prep time... Yeah.

    Bruce's moments of being a good family person are badly outnumbered by him being pretty bad at being a family person.

  10. #1330
    Amazing Member Jcady59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Dick is a better head of the Bat Family than Bruce.

    Trying to call Batman, and Gotham in general, more "grounded" than other parts of the DC Universe is bull. Super zombies, a woman that can control most plant life out there, a mud man that can grow as big as a kaiju that is immune to most ways of being neutralized, a vigilante that can supposedly beat anyone with prep time... Yeah.

    Bruce's moments of being a good family person are badly outnumbered by him being pretty bad at being a family person.
    I agree with the second but not with 1 and 3. Neither Dick or Bruce are particularly good heads of the bat family, and Bruce has only been written to be a bad family person within the last 10-15 years but there are still 65-70 years of Bruce being good that drowns it out.

  11. #1331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Dick is a better head of the Bat Family than Bruce.

    Trying to call Batman, and Gotham in general, more "grounded" than other parts of the DC Universe is bull. Super zombies, a woman that can control most plant life out there, a mud man that can grow as big as a kaiju that is immune to most ways of being neutralized, a vigilante that can supposedly beat anyone with prep time... Yeah.

    Bruce's moments of being a good family person are badly outnumbered by him being pretty bad at being a family person.
    Bruce when competently written is the best head of the Bat Family. Unfortunately, we live in an era where broken heroes who can't save anyone and make everything worse are popular and it's easy for writers to twist Batman into that role.

    I never understood the fans who insisted that Batman and Gotham were 'more grounded'. Gotham is probably the least grounded part of the DC Universe with all of the wacky stuff that goes on there.

  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Yes...? Or else she wouldn't have kissed her. It was evening, in a private-ish area of the campus, during a weekend when many cadets were going home to visit.

    Plus, we don't know the specifics of the accusation brought up against her.
    I could point out not acting on it at all. But then again I don’t have half million dollars to blow down the drain or spend the rest of my life in debt or needlessly put financial hardship on my family.
    But how about the obvious one of them finding a place behind closed doors. Kate has money I am sure she could have rented a hotel room or an apartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Gasp. A 20-year-old makes a risky decision. Stop the presses.
    And this situation is in no way comparable to making life-or-death decisions on a battlefield. Seriously?
    The small decisions lead to the big ones. She clearly has no impulse control and doesn’t think things through. God help anyone who would be under her command on the battle field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    It absolutely is heroic. Kate's decision to resign, rather than lie and take the easy way out, prevented a larger investigation that would have outed not only her but Sophie and any other LGBT cadets. That's why she asks BTO Reyes if she was the only one under suspicion.

    And yeah, she would have to repay the Academy, that's true. But as Jacob said to her, her decision let her keep her integrity. That's worth way more than a measley half a mil. It's worth, to Kate, even more than her very future.
    I don’t think that someone fessing up to a mess that they created is heroic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    It was the only option she had. She tried to finish her degree, but military service had been her only dream, and having that suddenly gone sent her on a fast downward spiral.
    If you are arguing that it was the only option…that she was fixated on the military to all else. Then she should not be a superhero. In fact being a vigilante is as far from a military organization as you could get. If she wanted to serve, she could have joined the police force, the FBI or the CIA. She could even have gone to work for a private military contractor.
    Further if you’re arguing that the military is the only option she had. Then that means she is rigid and inflexible and incapable of adapting to change. She’s little more than a silly child who thinks that if she can’t get her own way, She should sit in a corner and pout. That’s not heroic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post


    I don't follow your logic of how that's supposed to make Kate shoehorned or SJW/PC. What do Bruce's motives have anything to do with this?
    I showed why Bruce became Batman instead of just joining law enforcement. He wanted to directly affect Gotham City. Kate simply said that she wanted to serve. She had other options and choices whereby she can serve and help others. Methods that are much closer to the structured military way which she claims to like so much.
    Her inclusion came out of the blue. Not only did she have no relation to the Batbooks she didn’t even exist in the DC universe. Didio just as admitted that she was created to add LGBTQ quotient to the Bat books. That’s how she was shoehorned in..to satisfy the SJW/PC fans.

  13. #1333
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia View Post
    I could point out not acting on it at all. But then again I don’t have half million dollars to blow down the drain or spend the rest of my life in debt or needlessly put financial hardship on my family.
    But how about the obvious one of them finding a place behind closed doors. Kate has money I am sure she could have rented a hotel room or an apartment.
    It was a completely spontaneous moment, though. Kate had thought Sophie was gone. It's not like they planned to go there and make out. Even if they had, they're a couple 20-year-olds who made a boneheaded decision. So what? Why are you acting like that's somehow a problem? It's pretty realistic.

    The small decisions lead to the big ones. She clearly has no impulse control and doesn’t think things through. God help anyone who would be under her command on the battle field.
    She does have impulse control, but that doesn't mean it's perfect. Again: 20-year-old. Your equivocation of a spur-of-the-moment bit of affection to battlefield duties remains absurd. To generalize this: do you actually think that people behave the same on the job as they do when at leisure?
    You seem to also be under the impression that military personal are like... robots or something. They aren't.

    I don’t think that someone fessing up to a mess that they created is heroic.
    You don't? That's... kinda weird, honestly. But there's no evidence that Kate's accusation has anything to do with her kissing Sophie that one time. Even if it did, blaming her for it is absurd, as if DADT was in any way a just policy.

    The heroic part is that she completely, without hesitation, gave up the only thing she wanted in life in order to protect others. That displays a wealth of moral courage.

    If you are arguing that it was the only option…that she was fixated on the military to all else. Then she should not be a superhero. In fact being a vigilante is as far from a military organization as you could get. If she wanted to serve, she could have joined the police force, the FBI or the CIA. She could even have gone to work for a private military contractor.
    You're not understanding the situation. Kate was dedicated to a life of military service to such an extent that by giving it up, she literally had no other plans for her life. It quickly led to alcohol abuse and other aimlessness. You think the alphabet agencies or even the GCPD would ever hire her after she becomes tabloid fodder, and a public laughingstock for her alcohol issues? No. And at the depths she was at during that time, it's not like she had the wherewithal to try.

    She became a vigilante because that was the only way out of the mess she was in.

    Further if you’re arguing that the military is the only option she had. Then that means she is rigid and inflexible and incapable of adapting to change. She’s little more than a silly child who thinks that if she can’t get her own way, She should sit in a corner and pout. That’s not heroic.
    What are you even talking about here? This isn't about inflexibility or not getting one's way. It's about having one singular goal and focus for your life, and then in an instant giving that all up for the sake of protecting others. Do you seriously think that couldn't mess someone up pretty profoundly, just as we see happen to Kate?

    I showed why Bruce became Batman instead of just joining law enforcement. He wanted to directly affect Gotham City. Kate simply said that she wanted to serve. She had other options and choices whereby she can serve and help others. Methods that are much closer to the structured military way which she claims to like so much.
    See above for why that was not an option for her.

    Her inclusion came out of the blue. Not only did she have no relation to the Batbooks she didn’t even exist in the DC universe.
    This is nonsensical. Every character's creation comes out of the blue. What, are they supposed to exist before they debut or something?
    Last edited by Caivu; 03-20-2019 at 12:03 AM.
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  14. #1334
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    The military frowns on PDA in general.

  15. #1335
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    The military frowns on PDA in general.
    Yep. IIRC West Point couples aren't even allowed to hold hands in public. So even if Kate had been with a guy, she would've gotten in at least some trouble for kissing another cadet had she been seen.
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