Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[Aahz]

They should reform the Outsiders or Global Guardians book, and add Batwing to the team.

The Global Guardians never had a book.

And while this not really falls under "Controversial Batfamily Opinions": The Global Guardians are imo pretty terrible, and alot of the characters are just lame stereotypes (that's also the case with Batman Inc.).

[Mataza]

TTs at that time basically was Red Robin’s series. He was their flag barer for their teen line.

During the new 52? this isnt true. Tim was criminally underused. Thank god for that tho, the more you got used the worse off you were. Bart and Kon, poor lads.

[lemonpeace]

I think that was more because of the Batwings low sales (the last issue had only 8,223 issues shipped). He would have very likely went to limbo without Duke introduction.

And he still appears from time to time (Batgirl, Batman Eternal, Tynions run in TEC), but he is just not popular enough to sell a solo book, and after Tynions TEC run ended there is not really a book at the moment for Batfamly members that don't have there own book.

That's...debatable. It's not limbo I'm annoyed with, it's taking him completely off the board. If they had retired him after his book got cancelled then I could see that being the reason BUT that's not when the character got retired. They retired him within months of Duke becoming The Signal, 4 years after his title got canned and after years of him popping up in small spots like Batgirl, Eternal, and Tec. There are plenty heroes who exist in limbo who aren't retired so they could pop up at anytime. The fact that they actively retired him (and only him out of the Gotham Knights team) is suspect, especially when they had JUST raised Duke to hero status. Now am I not saying it was outright nefarious, I can't say I know what goes into DC's creative decisions but I can say that the optics of canning the previous black character (who himself teetering on tokenism and was swapped in for a different black character before him) looks suspect and problematic.

Going back to your point about there not being a book to put batmembers without their own book, there are plenty of them who didn't have books post-Tec who didn't get retired. Batwoman's currently kicking somewhere despite no book, Spoiler left with Tim Drake to do their own thing and is currently in limbo (but at least they compellingly set her up to want out if the cape), Azreal wasn't doing anything until he got put onto JL: O, Cassandra hasn't had her own book in years but is still kicking too. Hell, after his mini, Duke was pretty much in limbo, popping up rarely until Bryan Hill pulled him into Outsiders.

It was just a dumb move to me that they would outright retire Batwing. At the absolute least, it was horribly timed.

[byrd156]

New 52 Teen Titans wasn’t simply a team book though, it was the centerpiece for an entire line and focused on Tim. I assume the idea was to let that office, and that line, have complete control and agency with character as he the face with TT even now being his creation. While his "popularity" was never gonna be the same as Red Robin then as Robin, being the head of the centerpiece of an entire line was actually a bigger spot and more ambitious then a simple solo.

And Talon and Batwing were just bad ideas in general.

David Batwing was pretty awesome. Making Luke Fox Batwing was stupid as hell.

[9th.]

David Batwing was pretty awesome. Making Luke Fox Batwing was stupid as hell.

I kinda liked both but David satisfied a couple of more niches. That suit is way too cool to go to waste, I hate that t's retired.

[Aahz]

The fact that they actively retired him (and only him out of the Gotham Knights team) is suspect, especially when they had JUST raised Duke to hero status.

Ok I missed that.

But when it comes to the other TEC members, those are all bigger names than Luke.
Batwoman had far higher sales than Batwing, and has an upcoming TV show (and is DCs flagship LGBT charcter).
Azrael was as at least back in the day quite successful (his orginal run went on for 100 issues).
Cass was also quite successful as Batgirl.

And Steph is at least as Supporting character for Tim and Cass quite popular.


And Btw. wasn't he already retired before TEC and and just came out of retirement to help after Tim died? It kind of makes sense that he goes back to his civilian life after the end of the team, opposed to characters like Azrael and Cass who don't have a civilian life.

[Cmbmool]

David Batwing was pretty awesome. Making Luke Fox Batwing was stupid as hell.

I second this, but at least that character left the Batman family before it got too dark for him.

[Buried Alien]

Dick Grayson should have remained Robin for life (as he did on Pre-COIE Earth-Two). He would have become increasingly independent from Batman, and would have upgraded his costume to something resembling what Tim Drake wore during the 1990s, but he would have remained as the only Robin.

Not that I haven't enjoyed the characters of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and to a lesser extent, Damian Wayne and Stephanie Brown, but to me, Dick Grayson will always be Robin.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[oasis1313]

Dick Grayson should have remained Robin for life (as he did on Pre-COIE Earth-Two). He would have become increasingly independent from Batman, and would have upgraded his costume to something resembling what Tim Drake wore during the 1990s, but he would have remained as the only Robin.

Not that I haven't enjoyed the characters of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and to a lesser extent, Damian Wayne and Stephanie Brown, but to me, Dick Grayson will always be Robin.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Life would be a lot less complicated than it is now.

[The tall man]

Not really controversial but I would like to see the Batman who laughs and/or the Grim Knight go after the Bat-family and see how they deal with that. Honestly I think they would be screwed, having two psychotic and murderous Batmen with all the skills, focus and determination of the "original" intent on killing them would be something. I would like to see Jason going up against the Grim Knight or Kate facing off against the TBWL, even Damien bonding with a "killer daddy dearest". I foresee a lot of maiming and death, it would be glorious.

[Jackalope89]

Not really controversial but I would like to see the Batman who laughs and/or the Grim Knight go after the Bat-family and see how they deal with that. Honestly I think they would be screwed, having two psychotic and murderous Batmen with all the skills, focus and determination of the "original" intent on killing them would be something. I would like to see Jason going up against the Grim Knight or Kate facing off against the TBWL, even Damien bonding with a "killer daddy dearest". I foresee a lot of maiming and death, it would be glorious.

Just looked up Grim Knight. Sounds like the version of Batman who avenged Jason Todd, but with Lazarus pit insanity.

[TheNewFiftyForum]

David Batwing was pretty awesome. Making Luke Fox Batwing was stupid as hell.

The first six or so issues were great, but the book went south when they tried propping it up by finding ways to involve Batman and Gotham as much as possible.

[dietrich]

Not really controversial but I would like to see the Batman who laughs and/or the Grim Knight go after the Bat-family and see how they deal with that. Honestly I think they would be screwed, having two psychotic and murderous Batmen with all the skills, focus and determination of the "original" intent on killing them would be something. I would like to see Jason going up against the Grim Knight or Kate facing off against the TBWL, even Damien bonding with a "killer daddy dearest". I foresee a lot of maiming and death, it would be glorious.

That's a story I'd like to read.

[Agent Z]

Not really controversial but I would like to see the Batman who laughs and/or the Grim Knight go after the Bat-family and see how they deal with that. Honestly I think they would be screwed, having two psychotic and murderous Batmen with all the skills, focus and determination of the "original" intent on killing them would be something. I would like to see Jason going up against the Grim Knight or Kate facing off against the TBWL, even Damien bonding with a "killer daddy dearest". I foresee a lot of maiming and death, it would be glorious.

Yes, Grim Knight and BMWL will indeed be screwed when dealing with heroes who have no problem killing.

[ermac]

Nightwing belongs in the Justice League.

Gotham can be taken care of by Oracle, Tim, and Cassie.

Maybe Damian on the Titans?

Retire Batwoman, Spoiler, Huntress, Signal... Let Red Hood die.

And let Bruce be happy with Selina somewhere else.