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  1. #1
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    Default [B]Why are the Justice League titles out of synch with the rest of the N52 Universe?[/B]

    I know I might be nitpicking, but is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Justice League books seem to take place outside the normal continuity of the N52 universe?

    It's gotten to the point where I'm wondering if they are really part of N52 at all.

    Rest of the N52 - Depowered Superman without a secret identity. Bruce Wayne presumed dead and James Gordon as the new Batman. Wonder Woman now has pants, ridiculous armored shoulder pads and stupid wrist blades.

    Justice League and Justice League Of America - Superman still super. Bruce Wayne as the one and only Batman (thank God). Wonder Woman still rocking the original N52 look (which is not as bad as the new one).

    Seriously, when or where do the Justice League books take place?

  2. #2
    Moderator joybeans's Avatar
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    There's no official answer, so let's just say whenever you want it to take place. Maybe it's before Truth and Endgame and whatnot. Or after.

    Either way, Geoff Johns wanted to tell a Justice League story unaffected by these other events, so that's what he's gonna do.

  3. #3
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    There was obviously a switch from Justice League being a title that dictated the status quo of the others (setting up certain origins, events like Forever Evil spilling out into multiple other titles, etc.) to each title or family of books determining their own status quo, with Justice League operating independently.

    IMO, this is the best approach. I realize it's not flawless, since there's the risk of diminishing tension if it's obvious one title takes place "before" another one, but even then, it's not clear DC would let that dictate anything. This feels a lot better to me than either one flagship title dictating events in all the others, or the group title being slave to whatever events are taking place in the characters' own books, but your mileage may vary.

    Ultimately it's the sort of problem that has to arise once you start tightly serializing a shared universe and introducing both team and individual books for multiple characters.

    The big idea is that you'll ultimately be able to line everything up once the storylines are completed, but the even bigger idea is that it doesn't really matter.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by joybeans View Post
    There's no official answer, so let's just say whenever you want it to take place. Maybe it's before Truth and Endgame and whatnot. Or after.

    Either way, Geoff Johns wanted to tell a Justice League story unaffected by these other events, so that's what he's gonna do.
    Ok, fine, but at least clarify it to the readers. If a new reader comes into the shop and picks up JL, Batman and Superman for the first time, don't you think he's going to be a bit confused about the differences between what's going on in the current DCU (the solo titles) and what is going on in Mr. Johns' little corner of the DCU?

    And that still doesn't explain the new JLA. Are these the same teams? Is Bryan Hitch's book set in a different Earth? This are things you should lay out in order not to confuse the fan base and potential new readers.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Because Bryan Hitch wanted to do a story for them with as close to the regular League as he could, and DC, liking money, said "Sir yes sir!" That's all that matters, because people will most definitely buy that. As for Johns, harder to say. For Superman and Batman it could just take place earlier, but last I heard Green Lantern's current situation was a bit more complicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    I realize it's not flawless, since there's the risk of diminishing tension if it's obvious one title takes place "before" another one, but even then, it's not clear DC would let that dictate anything. ....it doesn't really matter.
    But it does matter. Exactly because of what you pointed out in your post. If all these Justice League stories take place before the events that are currently unfolding in the rest of the character's solo titles, then we really don't have to worry about anything radical happening to them (i.e. deaths, status quo changes, etc.) because we already know where all those characters' stories lead up to (their current status in the solo books).

    This to me is what is really disconcerting, I don't have to worry about how the Darkseid Wars end or about what happens to the JLA that Hitch is currently writing, because I already know they are going to be fine (well except for Batman who seriously got screwed over in his book).

    One of the enjoyable facts about reading a comic book story is that you are always wondering and worrying about what is going to happen to the characters. If you already know how they end up, it kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    It's good and bad.....DC is going for story over continuity. So, it's not just the league books, but others too (the writers of respective books may choose what to do; at least that's what I understand). It's just that the biggest differences are now within the league books.

    So, every DC book stands on its on..in a way, and don't rely on others to tell their story (which is great for a new reader; they don't have to get multiple books to understand the story). For more hardcore fans, I think we can eventually get around all the confusion.....so long as we ignore all the continuity issues and stop trying to build a timeline for the books (hard to do, but it's the best way to enjoy these new books, IMO).
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeevanjacobjohn View Post
    It's good and bad.....DC is going for story over continuity. So, it's not just the league books, but others too (the writers of respective books may choose what to do; at least that's what I understand). It's just that the biggest differences are now within the league books.

    So, every DC book stands on its on..in a way, and don't rely on others to tell their story (which is great for a new reader; they don't have to get multiple books to understand the story). For more hardcore fans, I think we can eventually get around all the confusion.....so long as we ignore all the continuity issues and stop trying to build a timeline for the books (hard to do, but it's the best way to enjoy these new books, IMO).
    I just feel that maybe they should have used the Darkseid Wars as the event storyline to cover the corporate headquarters move, and left Convergence as the September event (though it seems that this year DC isn't having a September event). At least that way the glaring changes in the status quo of the trinity wouldn't be such a distraction.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    i personally love it. you can enjoy the individual books and not have to worry that you missed something in another title. i think we've been programmed to think that we need to buy multiple books to get the whole story. it was a good marketing strategy that worked for many years but it seems that Marvel and DC are more focused on trades now a days. tpb do make it easier for the casual fan to pick up the book and enjoy the story without having to worry too much about what's going on in the entire comic book universe. plus it allows creators to have more freedom so they dont have to worry about what's going on across the line. hopefully it leads to less editor interference and fewer creators walking off books.

    if the story is good (which Justice League very much is!) i say dont worry about it. sit back and enjoy the story.
    Last edited by Robotman; 06-18-2015 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaf2675 View Post
    Ok, fine, but at least clarify it to the readers. If a new reader comes into the shop and picks up JL, Batman and Superman for the first time, don't you think he's going to be a bit confused about the differences between what's going on in the current DCU (the solo titles) and what is going on in Mr. Johns' little corner of the DCU?

    And that still doesn't explain the new JLA. Are these the same teams? Is Bryan Hitch's book set in a different Earth? This are things you should lay out in order not to confuse the fan base and potential new readers.
    I wouldn't assume a new reader would be confused. A new reader coming in hasn't been conditioned to expect a neat timeline or strict continuity, that's something it seems existing readers are struggling with more.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I find it ideal for each property to stand alone. All of DC's most celebrated works are outside of continuity anyway, or just don't reference it all that much (All Star Supes, Watchmen, the Sandman, Morrison's Doom Patrol, etc.). It shouldn't really matter that Hal's status quo is different in his solo book than it is in the JL titles, because the latter is just about seeing all the big superheroes team up to face common threats. If continuity is overly hampering the main purpose of a book then continuity should be treated lightly or ignored altogether. Putting too much emphasis on a shared fictional setting and making sure every single detail lines up is just aggravating when these books are meant to be fun. I mostly just care about the characters being true to themselves.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    It is a little weird given how big the Batman and Superman stories currently going on now are, but Johns had a big story he has been setting up for a while and he couldn't really do that story if he had to take into account the current Batman and Superman stories. So he has to ignore them for now.

    Though I am curious to see how the Justice League deals with Batman being "dead' and Superman being outed to the world. I do hope we will get to see the JL team have to deal with these changes and they just don't ignore them until those two stories get undone.

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    This is one of best things DC has done in recent years. I don't like this new costume finches have given to Wonder Woman, if it replaces the awesome costume she is wearing in Justice League then that will force me to drop the book. Johns and Fabok are doing tremendous job, darkseid war wouldn't be darkseid war if they had to change the story to fit in with what's happening in solo books.
    Last edited by Stone Cold; 06-18-2015 at 03:17 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    It is a little weird given how big the Batman and Superman stories currently going on now are, but Johns had a big story he has been setting up for a while and he couldn't really do that story if he had to take into account the current Batman and Superman stories. So he has to ignore them for now.

    Though I am curious to see how the Justice League deals with Batman being "dead' and Superman being outed to the world. I do hope we will get to see the JL team have to deal with these changes and they just don't ignore them until those two stories get undone.
    Depowered superman is still part of justice league as it was shown in Martian Manhunter #1.

  15. #15
    Unapologetic NYer GDC3's Avatar
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    I'm enjoying the books more on their own and not worrying too much how they fit. As long as all the pieces fit within the respective stories I'm reading, I'm good.
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