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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I wondered why Marvel never hired Jim Starlin to write and illustrate Captain Marvel as this would be a very good fit for the character.
    Let's keep in mind one of the first things Starlin did when he started writing the original Captain Marvel series was write out Carol Danvers. Or, rather, just ignore her and never use her, despite her being the major supporting character for the first 18 issues. I love Starlin, but I'm not anxious to see his Carol.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Someone argued, I forget who, that the Hellfire club story in X-Men was originally intended for Carol in Ms. Marvel. (It's Claremont, so a fetish-y mind control story works for pretty much any book.) I sometimes wish he hadn't concentrated exclusively on mutant books because I liked his approach to Bronze Age non-mutant heroines like Carol, Misty, Colleen, Natasha, etc.
    That was me. It was in the story that would have been Ms. Marvel v.1 #25óCarol confronts the Hellfire Club, who are affiliated with Mystique for some reason. The story was half-finished when the book was cancelled, and Marvel eventually finished it and printed it in an issue of Marvel Super-Heroes in the early 90s (along with would-have-been issue #24). The open question is how much of the rest of the Dark Phoenix Saga was meant for Carol, or if it was just the Hellfire Club part. (FWIW, the Hellfire Club story makes *much* more sense with Carol, since the Mastermind visions were instead Carol's Seventh Sense visionsóClaremont had to bring in Mastermind to keep the vision part of the story when he changed heroines.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoov-E View Post
    I'd be waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy happy if Ellis did what he did with Moon Knight and told what he wanted to in 5 issues and bounced out, throw in Jess and Rhodie and it would be amazing
    I definitely see this as one of the top possibilitiesóa short run by Ellis, prob. followed by someone much lower profile (i.e., lower paid) who can continue in his footsteps. Ellis is also the male writer best suited to easing the worries of the fanbase since he's already co-written it with DeConnick.

    That said, I'd say we're probably most likely to see Kelly Thompson continue after Secret Wars. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, and I wouldn't be shocked to see someone else writing it, but just that she's probably most likely of the lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceebiro View Post
    I'm okay with this.

    One big problem is that Marvel absolutely did not invest creatively in Captain Marvel when they relaunched it especially when compared to the other books that launched around that time (Hawkeye, Daredevil, Moon Knight, Punisher).

    They basically sent the book out to die.

    As for KSD, her first run felt as if it lacked in direction, and the memory loss angle didn't really do it for me.

    Carol Danvers - Agent of SWORD. How hard would that be to do? Carol gets to play in space and on Earth. Plus you get Agent Brand in the deal.
    The second volume got a bit more press, but, yeah, Kelly Sue's first volume got minimal press initially and then was swamped immediately after by all the Marvel Now launches. It was a book set up to fail.

    Of course, because of that, Kelly Sue only thought she would get six issues, and managed to get 30-some. I think part of the flailing after the initial arc was her "oh, wait, I have to write more?" period. Like a lot of people, I found the tumor/memory loss the low point of the series, though I liked the revival/use of Yonn-Rog. I just wish she didn't return to the memory loss thing with Carol, who frankly deserves to finally be over the after-effects of Avengers 200 35 years later.
    Last edited by Joe Acro; 06-21-2015 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Merged

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myetche View Post
    Why, just look at Mystique. You wouldn't even know that she was supposed to be Carol's nemesis before the X-books sucked her in and never let her go. I would love for the new writer to get Mysti out of the mutant quagmire and back to making Carol miserable on a more-regular basis.
    I wonder if Carol finds it ironic that her successor basically has the same power as her original nemesis.

  3. #78
    Junior Member SidheKnight's Avatar
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    I know this will piss off the Corps, but I'm really OK with her leaving.

    I tried to get into her run, I really did, but it just didn't click with me. I'm glad for all she did for the character, though. It always struck me as odd that a heroine with a power-set similar to that of friggin' Superman would be relegated to B-List. Her promotion to Captain Marvel was long overdue (since the original was dead for so long, it was strange for me that she still went by Ms. Marvel). Also, more female-led titles are much welcome.

    I hope I can get into her book now that they're changing writers.

  4. #79
    BANNED Wandacrystal22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SidheKnight View Post
    I know this will piss off the Corps, but I'm really OK with her leaving.

    I tried to get into her run, I really did, but it just didn't click with me. I'm glad for all she did for the character, though. It always struck me as odd that a heroine with a power-set similar to that of friggin' Superman would be relegated to B-List. Her promotion to Captain Marvel was long overdue (since the original was dead for so long, it was strange for me that she still went by Ms. Marvel). Also, more female-led titles are much welcome.

    I hope I can get into her book now that they're changing writers.

    I understand. It didn't click with me either.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Weevil View Post
    That was me. It was in the story that would have been Ms. Marvel v.1 #25óCarol confronts the Hellfire Club, who are affiliated with Mystique for some reason. The story was half-finished when the book was cancelled, and Marvel eventually finished it and printed it in an issue of Marvel Super-Heroes in the early 90s (along with would-have-been issue #24). The open question is how much of the rest of the Dark Phoenix Saga was meant for Carol, or if it was just the Hellfire Club part. (FWIW, the Hellfire Club story makes *much* more sense with Carol, since the Mastermind visions were instead Carol's Seventh Sense visionsóClaremont had to bring in Mastermind to keep the vision part of the story when he changed heroines.)
    Cool, thanks. And yes, it would have made more sense with Carol's Seventh Sense powers, but shoving it into X-Men gave us one of the best parts of the whole story, turning the useless old villain Mastermind into someone creepy and dangerous. Some good things can come out of shoehorned-in stories.

  6. #81
    Fantastic Member Lutecius's Avatar
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    I'm sure she's a good writer but I couldn't even finish her first arc on this book. Something about time travel and a WW2 unknown female squadron. To launch a new Captain Marvel ongoing. Who does that?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    So... you really like Spider-Gwen or something. Fine.

    But the "token" bs is just bs.

    Let's not start throwing that term around just because they advertised a book that got good press, good reviews, has a diehard fanbase, and an upcoming movie just because it's not your thing.

    She's no more the "token _____ lead" and the comic was no more a token comic than any other at Marvel. That's insulting to the talent who worked on the comics, it's degrading to their efforts and the fans who enjoyed it, and based in no actual reality.

    Was it kept afloat despite low sales because of other reasons? Yeah. And, that's not unordinary for any publisher when a product generates good press, garners great reviews, and has a loyal and vocal fanbase.
    Yeah, except it wasn't a big secret that they were trying desperately to turn her into Marvel's version of Wonder Women.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutecius View Post
    I'm sure she's a good writer but I couldn't even finish her first arc on this book. Something about time travel and a WW2 unknown female squadron. To launch a new Captain Marvel ongoing. Who does that?
    Well, it was something new, and made it clear this wouldn't be either like Carol's other books or other Captain Marvel books. Plus stories like that are a good way to comment on women's roles through the ages (though I thought this was more nuanced than some of DeConnick's other stories).

    Also it kind of helped push the idea that Carol is the female Captain America, which was hinted at a few times that year by giving her a bigger role in the Avengers and having Steve as the guest star in her first issue.

    I don't actually know how much people like World War II stories - Cap stories set in WWII never seem to do as well as the others, even in the movies - but writers and editors certainly like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Scarlet View Post
    Yeah, except it wasn't a big secret that they were trying desperately to turn her into Marvel's version of Wonder Women.
    Well, Wonder Woman's rarely a big seller either. But I think in 2012 Marvel really took notice that the female audience for comics was increasing and they didn't have any books with female leads. (And very little usable material for the movies or TV.) You can see why they'd want to increase her profile.

    Even so, they really didn't give the book a ton of promotion or A-list interior artists, which is why it's impressive that DeConnick and Wacker and Amanat were able to keep the book in the public eye enough to keep it running.
    Last edited by gurkle; 06-21-2015 at 03:03 PM.

  9. #84
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    Kelly Sue is just too busy doing her own thing writing creator owned books and producing tv shows. more $$$.
    she did well with captain marvel, farewell Kelly!

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Even so, they really didn't give the book a ton of promotion or A-list interior artists, which is why it's impressive that DeConnick and Wacker and Amanat were able to keep the book in the public eye enough to keep it running.
    Um, it was being given relaunches as books that were outselling it were being canceled. She was then tossed into GOTG right around the time the movie came out. She's been was given more promotion than most, and more than what was desereved.

  11. #86
    Fantastic Member QBall's Avatar
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    So B-list book relaunches with new writer. Is that really such a big thing?

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Scarlet View Post
    more than what was desereved.
    How do you gauge what is deserved?
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Scarlet View Post
    Um, it was being given relaunches as books that were outselling it were being canceled. She was then tossed into GOTG right around the time the movie came out. She's been was given more promotion than most, and more than what was desereved.
    I was thinking more of the first year or so of the book, which as others have pointed out they didn't seem to expect to last that long, and seemed kind of a low-budget book; I think Andrade's art is awful, others like it, but it doesn't scream "big budget" comic either way. I get the impression Marvel wanted her to have a higher profile in the Avengers, but didn't necessarily expect the new book to last. Wacker launched a number of books around that time that lasted longer than expected, like Hawkeye.

    As time has gone on and a Carol movie has become more likely, yes, they're pushing her harder. (As a Scarlet Witch fan I envy CM fans; even being in a movie can't even get my favorite character into Secret Wars, let alone multiple books.) But in 2012 I don't think DeConnick and Wacker had a ton of promotional energy behind them, with Marvel Now! going on around them. They had to find ways to drum up interest on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    How do you gauge what is deserved?
    "Undeserved" = "takes promotional time or page time away from my favorite character/book."

    To be fair, all these characters and books are in competition with each other for promo time, writer interest, and consumer dollars. So complaining about a character getting too much attention isn't exactly wrong, it's just always going to sound like sour grapes. Because it is, basically, sour grapes..
    Last edited by gurkle; 06-21-2015 at 05:13 PM.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QBall View Post
    So B-list book relaunches with new writer. Is that really such a big thing?
    Amazing writer heavily tied to a low-selling A-list comic quitting is worth noting, yes. Especially in a world where Superman getting a new belt or someone drawing Batman's ears a bit different will get a news story.
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  15. #90
    Superior Spider-fan Agent Scarlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    How do you gauge what is deserved?
    Despite multiple relaunches, creative team changes, and high profile appearances including Avengers, Spider-man, and GOTG, the book was never able to claw it's way past what is widely accepted to be Marvel's cancelation threshold.

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