Kelly Sue DeConnick to depart "Captain Marvel" post-"Secret Wars"

[Agent Scarlet]

Amazing writer heavily tied to a low-selling A-list comic quitting is worth noting, yes. Especially in a world where Superman getting a new belt or someone drawing Batman's ears a bit different will get a news story.

This pretty much sums up my point. Something as asinine as the belt or ears gets the news because those are characters that everyone knows and the books sell well, especially Bats. Carol, while having a very devoted fan base, it is a relatively small one and she just doesn't appeal to the wider audience, and her sales show it.

[Frontier]

Slott is one of their most progressive writers and does justice to women. The fact that he gave the Spider-Man universe Anna Maria Marconi, a little person who is a genius and more capable than Spider-Man and was at one time a love interest, I think is a testament to his ability to do females justice.

Granted, and I really like Anna Maria, he also arguably character assassinated Black Cat, turning her into basically a dime-a-dozen mustache-twirling Supervillain with bad motivations, and RYV has been the best his MJ has ever been. Then he also created Silk, who under him was somehow better and stronger with her powers than Peter was, and then kept trying to jump his bones because of Spider-Pheromones. Even Anna Maria as of late has been a bit too "perfect" as a character in Amazing.

Although I did really enjoy his She-Hulk .

As for this news...it'll be sad to see KSD leave the book, considering how much she's put into writing Carol and building her up as Captain Marvel in both the MU and with the Carol Corps. No matter your opinion of her writing, the effort she's made in pushing the character and interacting with fans is quite impressive.

I've read her run from very the beginning, and while it never necesarilly blew me away or amazed me, I usually enjoyed it quite a bit. I wish Ms. DeConnick the best and hope for a worthy successor on Captain Marvel .

[Agent Scarlet]

"Undeserved" = "takes promotional time or page time away from my favorite character/book."

This little jab will work when she actually takes a book out of cancelation numbers. I don't mind books getting favored over others in terms of promotion, if it actually leads somewhere. With Carol, it simply hasn't.

[gurkle]

This pretty much sums up my point. Something as asinine as the belt or ears gets the news because those are characters that everyone knows and the books sell well, especially Bats. Carol, while having a very devoted fan base, it is a relatively small one and she just doesn't appeal to the wider audience, and her sales show it.

What do sales matter now?

I don't even like the book, but sales don't matter when a run is over, and they barely matter at all unless we're rooting for a book not to get canceled.

"Sales are bad" is one of those things that we say to each other (not even knowing exactly what the sales are) as if we're supposed to care, like how much money a movie made in its opening weekend. What do I care?

This little jab will work when she actually takes a book out of cancelation numbers.

It's not really a jab, more an explanation of why we resent a lot of promotion for books or characters we don't like. I certainly would rather see some of that promotional energy go to my favourite characters, though of course if that happened, other people would resent them getting promotion instead of their favourites... and so it goes.

[t hedge coke]

Despite multiple relaunches, creative team changes, and high profile appearances including Avengers, Spider-man, and GOTG, the book was never able to claw it's way past what is widely accepted to be Marvel's cancelation threshold.

It's been consistently one of Marvel's most talked-about books, particularly outside of normal superhero comics venues. And, it's building them a cache of stories before the movie hits. Those things are worth, in some ways, far more than immediate sales.

Marvel isnt eking it out month to month. Ultimately, good ink and a presence in line with the movies is garnering them something that many of their other books aren't affording them.

[t hedge coke]

This pretty much sums up my point. Something as asinine as the belt or ears gets the news because those are characters that everyone knows and the books sell well, especially Bats. Carol, while having a very devoted fan base, it is a relatively small one and she just doesn't appeal to the wider audience, and her sales show it.

Is the Scarlet Spider deserving of an avatar on CBR? Or is his fanbase relatively small and unappealing to a wider audience and also not getting a movie of his own?

Maybe. But, it doesn't matter, you've got your avatar, he has his fanbase. Some things are beyond our control, whether we agree with them or not... and they don't hurt us a bit, so why complain? Why come into a thread about a piece of news and complain that the news isn't worth discussing and the book shouldn't have been? It has been, already, and will continue to be. You and I don't have a choice in that and it wouldn't harm us even if we did.

[QBall]

Amazing writer heavily tied to a low-selling A-list comic quitting is worth noting, yes. Especially in a world where Superman getting a new belt or someone drawing Batman's ears a bit different will get a news story.

A-list? I know she's getting a movie but never saw her as an A-list character as far as the comics are concerned. I'll admit she has a devoted fan base but that doesn't equate to A-list.

[Agent Scarlet]

Is the Scarlet Spider deserving of an avatar on CBR? Or is his fanbase relatively small and unappealing to a wider audience and also not getting a movie of his own?

Maybe. But, it doesn't matter, you've got your avatar, he has his fanbase. Some things are beyond our control, whether we agree with them or not... and they don't hurt us a bit, so why complain? Why come into a thread about a piece of news and complain that the news isn't worth discussing and the book shouldn't have been? It has been, already, and will continue to be. You and I don't have a choice in that and it wouldn't harm us even if we did.

Don't resort to thinly veiled ad hominem, it's unbecoming. I'm not complaining that this creative shake up shouldn't be news, nor did I say it shouldn't be. I simply replied to your complaints about people calling her "token". Marvel's trying to make Carol their token female hero, just like WW is DC's. They have been for a while now, and will continue to do so. You and I don't have a choice in that and it wouldn't harm us even if we did.

[totalsellout]

So... you really like Spider-Gwen or something. Fine.

But the "token" bs is just bs.

Let's not start throwing that term around just because they advertised a book that got good press, good reviews, has a diehard fanbase, and an upcoming movie just because it's not your thing.

She's no more the "token _____ lead" and the comic was no more a token comic than any other at Marvel. That's insulting to the talent who worked on the comics, it's degrading to their efforts and the fans who enjoyed it, and based in no actual reality.

Was it kept afloat despite low sales because of other reasons? Yeah. And, that's not unordinary for any publisher when a product generates good press, garners great reviews, and has a loyal and vocal fanbase.

requoted for truth.

[t hedge coke]

Don't resort to thinly veiled ad hominem, it's unbecoming. I'm not complaining that this creative shake up shouldn't be news, nor did I say it shouldn't be. I simply replied to your complaints about people calling her "token". Marvel's trying to make Carol their token female hero, just like WW is DC's. They have been for a while now, and will continue to do so. You and I don't have a choice in that and it wouldn't harm us even if we did.

"Token." "Undeserving."

That wasn't thinly-veiled ad hominem, it wasn't even veiled, nor was it ad hominem. It's a direct comparison of two situations involving Marvel characters and CBR that are out of our respective control using something that you, presumably, have an easier time feeling sympathetic about.

Coming into this thread to throw around "token" and "more than what was deserved" is inane. And what does it net you?

It's as inane as if I came into a thread here about the character in your avatar and said the same, or similar things, because they're immaterial. (I wouldn't actually, since I like the character fine, and I'm not an ass, but if I did, it'd be inane.) So the book had low sales and the character doesn't appeal to everyone. That has what to dow with the thread, and in comparison to most of our favorite characters, reflects what? Most of the characters we like have niche appeal and many of them don't burn up the sales charts these days, because American superhero comics just don't sell the way they used to.

Maybe you're a classy guy, a good type. I'm not having a go at you personally, but what did you hope to add to this thread? What exactly, did you think saying "token" in this thread was going to get you? Are you capable of backing that word up? It's not their only female-led solo of 2015. It's not written or drawn dispassionately as a cynical attempt to work up an audience and milk them with false promises and a cardboard cutout of a comic. So, how, exactly, is it a token?

[Agent Scarlet]

requoted for truth.

It's less truth as much as it is a rant of someone's subjective take on the meaning of calling Carol "token"

[t hedge coke]

It's less truth as much as it is a rant of someone's subjective take on the meaning of calling Carol "token"

By all means, tell us exactly what you mean. Instead of just dropping a hot-button and incredibly insulting term in the midst, elaborate. Tell us what you mean by it.

[ImprobableQuestion]

I thought KSD would be the last custodian of 616 Carol Danvers but the Secret Wars series informs me that Jonathan Hickman is the current custodian of 616 Carol Danvers.
Jonathan Hickman is to be the very last custodian of 616 Carol Danvers.

I think you might be... disappointed by Carol after Secret Wars if you think she won't be like the 616 version.

[Agent Scarlet]

What exactly, did you think saying "token" in this thread was going to get you? Are you capable of backing that word up? It's not their only female-led solo of 2015. It's not written or drawn dispassionately as a cynical attempt to work up an audience and milk them with false promises and a cardboard cutout of a comic. So, how, exactly, is it a token?

Yes, I can, and already have in my previous posts, as well as your slyly posted jab involving her movie.

The thing is, you're taking "token" as a bad thing, when it really doesn't need to be. When the wider audiance thinks DC, they think the big 3, Supes, Bats, and WW. Marvel doesn't have a female character that has that kind of, let's call it brand recognition, and with the increasing demand for strong female leads, they want one. They want Carol to be a character that when people think Marvel, she comes forefront. My only point has been that she may not be right female character for that position. Though that's very likely to change after the movie, it hasn't happened yet despite the considerable effort that's been put into her.

[gurkle]

Oh, boy, an argument over the exact meaning of "token." Because there's nothing more fun on the internet, nothing that contributes more to peace and understanding, than arguing over what a word means.



I think "token" is a provocative enough word that it makes sense to choose another word that means the same thing, but won't start an argument.