The Superman vs Batman Movie

[Terok Nor]

There is a difference between one kill when you feel (rightly or wrongly) that you had no choice, it was a life or death situation (for the family not Superman himself) and Joker-style killing repeatedly and indiscriminately because it amuses you to do so - or in Magog's case, because you've decided you are above the law, as killing Joker would not save lives in that moment, nor would it bring his victims back, and it's pretty much established that Magog and his ilk go for lethal force right from the start rather than as last resort. There is also the theory that Zod's death is what prompts Superman's no-killing rule - he'd never faced a situation where he was overmatched and out of his depth before and he's determined not to make the same mistake twice.

All hypothetical of course.

But Magog's whole point was that the Joker is pretty much always about to kill someone.

[LoneNecromancer]

I heard that Victor Stone's injuries will have also been caused by the Kryptonians World Engine attack on Metropolis. Sounds like Superman will be public enemy #1.

The only thing we have confirmed is that the people of Metropolis have made a statue of Supes, so they're apparently pretty chuffed he still saved them.

[Superlad93]

Assuming the Batman in BvS started out at 20+ years of age, he will have been a veteran of 20 years of crime fighting by his mid-40s which is the age Batman is when BvS begins. So Affleck’s age is just right. Remember that Henry Cavill’s Superman was 33 during events of Mos so in order to level the playing field, Batman has to be more experienced yet still young enough to fight the kind of enemies that will require the formation of the Justice League. So, all in all, mid-40s makes sense and Affleck is at the right age.

Ok so call me crazy or a nay sayer but I don't think I get this angle they're taking with him being older. Mind you I'm not opposed to the idea of an older Batman. Not saying that at all. I'm into that. But the reasoning sound a little off to me given the world they live in.

Let me explain, if MOS' Superman is the first abnormal/supernatural event that the world has ever had on that level. If Superman is roughly the first public super being on this level or any other then how is Batman's veteran status gonna help?

Simply because he's old and has been beating on mobs bosses and poor thugs for 20 years with the occasional crazy person thrown in......how does that prep him AT ALL for god-man-laser-vision-dude? Being able to take a group of 30 guys down isn't going to help you fight a guy who can do and 8th of what Superman can do in MOS.

Simply because an old man fought in wars all his life isn't gonna help him fight an invincible god. What does this veteran status really mean? Batman learning about Superman for the first time ever at age 30 is roughly the same as him learning about him at age 40 something. There are no others before Superman to give Batman that seasoned status.

It's just a little odd to me. Like them trying to force DKR without the idea of them already knowing each other for years and years.

[Dr. Jan Itor]

Ok so call me crazy or a nay sayer but I don't think I get this angle they're taking with him being older. Mind you I'm not opposed to the idea of an older Batman. Not saying that at all. I'm into that. But the reasoning sound a little off to me given the world they live in.

Let me explain, if MOS' Superman is the first abnormal/supernatural event that the world has ever had on that level. If Superman is roughly the first public super being on this level or any other then how is Batman's veteran status gonna help?

Simply because he's old and has been beating on mobs bosses and poor thugs for 20 years with the occasional crazy person thrown in......how does that prep him AT ALL for god-man-laser-vision-dude? Being able to take a group of 30 guys down isn't going to help you fight a guy who can do and 8th of what Superman can do in MOS.

Simply because an old man fought in wars all his life isn't gonna help him fight an invincible god. What does this veteran status really mean? Batman learning about Superman for the first time ever at age 30 is roughly the same as him learning about him at age 40 something. There are no others before Superman to give Batman that seasoned status.

It's just a little odd to me. Like them trying to force DKR without the idea of them already knowing each other for years and years.

But it makes sense if they go with the Justice League: War battle, where Superman completely humiliates Batman.

[Superlad93]

But it makes sense if they go with the Justice League: War battle, where Superman completely humiliates Batman.

Yeah I'd agree that god-man fighting guy in Bat suit who hasn't been in a fight on this level against such a being beats wins. If they're going to say that he learns from watching Superman during and after the Zod stuff then I'll ask.....why, again, does he need to be old and "seasoned" to do this? Couldn't 30 something Batman do just the same if he watching Superman from that point on? Yeah I'd say so.

I'm more than fine with him being old. I'm actually looking forward to that idea but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

[LoneNecromancer]

Ok so call me crazy or a nay sayer but I don't think I get this angle they're taking with him being older. Mind you I'm not opposed to the idea of an older Batman. Not saying that at all. I'm into that. But the reasoning sound a little off to me given the world they live in.

Let me explain, if MOS' Superman is the first abnormal/supernatural event that the world has ever had on that level. If Superman is roughly the first public super being on this level or any other then how is Batman's veteran status gonna help?

Simply because he's old and has been beating on mobs bosses and poor thugs for 20 years with the occasional crazy person thrown in......how does that prep him AT ALL for god-man-laser-vision-dude? Being able to take a group of 30 guys down isn't going to help you fight a guy who can do and 8th of what Superman can do in MOS.

Simply because an old man fought in wars all his life isn't gonna help him fight an invincible god. What does this veteran status really mean? Batman learning about Superman for the first time ever at age 30 is roughly the same as him learning about him at age 40 something. There are no others before Superman to give Batman that seasoned status.

It's just a little odd to me. Like them trying to force DKR without the idea of them already knowing each other for years and years.

He's a veteran because it means they don't do need to do another Batman origin movie when the last one came out in 2005.

[Dr. Jan Itor]

Yeah I'd agree that god-man fighting guy in Bat suit who hasn't been in a fight on this level against such a being beats wins. If they're going to say that he learns from watching Superman during and after the Zod stuff then I'll ask.....why, again, does he need to be old and "seasoned" to do this? Couldn't 30 something Batman do just the same if he watching Superman from that point on? Yeah I'd say so.

I'm more than fine with him being old. I'm actually looking forward to that idea but the reasoning makes no sense to me.

Aside from what LoneNecromancer said, it helps for the non-comicbook fan, who are used to Batman being played by different characters, not to be confused by a young Batman running around.

At this point, I'm trusting the script to give us a good explanation. I watched Argo again a few days ago and am hopeful that Chris Terrio can bring the same excitement and drama (and humor) to this film.

[lancerman]

Generally, the more focused the narrative, the more satisfying the arc. It's why the climax of Star Wars works so much better than the one in Return of the Jedi (though both are good films, natch)-- because attention is focused on a single breath-taking climax instead cutting between three of them. All the roads in the story led to a final end point. It's also why comic book fans tend to get nervous when a lot of villains are going to be in a single film-- it dilutes their impact. I don't have a script, so I'm not complaining really, but everything we're hearing indicates a direction that is cause for concern.

That doesn't even cover the VERY tricky task of introducing a group of characters the audience wants to sympathize with and having them in various states of enmity with one another-- which is hard for stories where it's the main focus unto itself. Add Lex Luthor and you have some idea of why I'm skeptical, guys.

I thought the climax to Jedi was better to be honest. You had three groups with three separate goals, but the goals conflicted with each other to add drama. The Shields needed to be shut or Lando would be hanging out there with a target on his back unable to attack the Death Star. Luke needed to finish his personal conflict with Vader and the Emperor before any of that happened or he's dead. It left a feeling of uncertainty.

Multiple villains are often the opposite phenomenon where it's the same plot but you added to many distinct narratives to the same thread and did it in such a messy manner that it becomes convoluted and everything loses meaning. See Spider-Man 3. All the points built up to the same end, but they were all diminished because they were sharing time. You could have done great things with that Sandman story or Harry story. And we know Venom can be done right. But three at the same time is hard.

You can still do it that way. But films aren't the ideal medium for that. I've read plenty of books where it was done just fine. Hell, Lord of the Rings had no problem juggling multiple plot points and conflicts at any given time.

[Superlad93]

He's a veteran because it means they don't do need to do another Batman origin movie when the last one came out in 2005.

Aside from what LoneNecromancer said, it helps for the non-comicbook fan, who are used to Batman being played by different characters, not to be confused by a young Batman running around.

At this point, I'm trusting the script to give us a good explanation. I watched Argo again a few days ago and am hopeful that Chris Terrio can bring the same excitement and drama (and humor) to this film.

I get that and I think those are absolutely great reasons but another one of the reasons that I hear is that it's so he can stand toe to toe with Superman better than a younger Batman. That doesn't make sense if this is the first time he's encountering super humans let alone super human on this level.

I'm all for the other reasons. I think it's a smart move TBH. But this DKR reasoning for it makes no sense. I'll just wait and see what makes it into the movie.

[Beantownbrown]

I get that and I think those are absolutely great reasons but another one of the reasons that I hear is that it's so he can stand toe to toe with Superman better than a younger Batman. That doesn't make sense if this is the first time he's encountering super humans let alone super human on this level.

I'm all for the other reasons. I think it's a smart move TBH. But this DKR reasoning for it makes no sense. I'll just wait and see what makes it into the movie.

I feel the same way man. The reason that we were given doesn't make sense at all. What does it matter if he's a season vet or a younger Batman? Either way SM is too powerful for BM.

[Prime]

I get that and I think those are absolutely great reasons but another one of the reasons that I hear is that it's so he can stand toe to toe with Superman better than a younger Batman. That doesn't make sense if this is the first time he's encountering super humans let alone super human on this level.

I'm all for the other reasons. I think it's a smart move TBH. But this DKR reasoning for it makes no sense. I'll just wait and see what makes it into the movie.

It's ridicules actually. Batman should never be able to go toe-to-toe with Superman. They are in different leagues.

[Angelo2113]

It depends what Batman's motive is when they first have their physical confrontation. If Superman gets hot headed and attacks Batman without holding back it could back fire if Bruce is recording the entire fight and broadcasting it across the world to prove that Clark/Kal-El is a danger to society. Also, if Kryptonite is introduced, it should bring Superman down quite easily if its similar to how the Kryptonian atmosphere affected him in Man of Steel. Their fight is going to only be a few minutes, at the most, anyways but it will be f*cking fantastic to see, especially with Zack Snyder as the director.

All in all, I'm glad Batman is a seasoned veteran. It could be a great dynamic between the two and have them feed off of each other. Kal-El learning the responsibility of being a superhero and Bruce getting the fire back that made him want to become a superhero.

I'm really getting my hopes up about Benedict Cumberbatch being cast. Such an amazing talented actor.

[Prime]

I honestly don't see anything coming out of this fight for Superman.

[Dr. Jan Itor]

It's ridiculous actually. Batman should never be able to go toe-to-toe with Superman. They are in different leagues.

They're both in the Justice League.

But really, we should just calm down until we have definitive proof that Batman holds his own with Superman; not jump to conclusions based on rumor.

[Superlad93]

All in all, I'm glad Batman is a seasoned veteran. It could be a great dynamic between the two and have them feed off of each other. Kal-El learning the responsibility of being a superhero and Bruce getting the fire back that made him want to become a superhero.

THIS RIGHT HERE, MAN! This is what I hope will be the focus. The idea that maybe Batman was on the edge of giving in. Maybe he's been just going through the motions at this point. But when he really sees the fire the passion and the thirst to do good that Superman (hopefully) puts on full undeniable display it sparks something in him. He sees what he was when he first started and what he still can be in this coming golden age.

Superman sees a war vet. A man beaten down by the chaos around him be completely unwilling to break. The human will to fight at it's apex in this man. It's almost terrifying. Superman can lift mountains, but the fight in this man's war torn eyes could halt time itself. So much can be learned from this man.

So much should be learned from each other.