The New Marvel Universe: I'm not liking this.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I'm not liking the changes either but marvel quality has been lacking this century.

[7thangel]

Attachment 23721

The same thread over and over and over and over again. It makes you feel trapped in an endless loop... In all seriousness, the same thread pops up every.damn.month with nothing new to offer, nothing new to discuss, just to recycle the same old "argument". Let's break it down a bit:

month? it seems more like twice a week

[gwenFan]

I'm not liking the changes either but marvel quality has been lacking this century.

Nah it has been good. image however....ew

[dragonmp93]

Um, you do know that Sam could easily go on to experience just as much, if not more than, Rich, right? Because, you know, he's a young character early in his adventures and presumably has many more stories ahead of him.



All respect to Stan but he is, like, 90-something years old. His views are bound to be a little more conservative. While I actually do agree with him on keeping characters as they were originated, I don't think he understands the challenges in getting traction for new female and minority characters. Even a classic Lee/Kirby creation like The Black Panther has had a hard time maintaining a solo title for long. So if having Jane Foster serve as Thor or Sam Wilson take on the role of Cap is going to more effectively spotlight females and minorities while still evolving the characters of Odinson and Steve outside of their familiar roles, what's the harm? We've seen time and again that new characters (of any gender or ethnicity) don't garner anywhere near the fanbase of characters that have direct ties to established icons. After awhile, a bolder step is needed in order to move things forward.

A mantle can be passed without diminishing the original character. I wouldn't want the ethnicity of Peter Parker himself to change (because it's a cosmetic alteration that wouldn't really mean anything) but if Miles is appointed to be the prime Spidey of the Marvel Universe (for whatever duration of time it may last), I think that's fine.

Well, the things is, from i have seen, Marvel is trying to make people believe that Sam already did (offscreen somehow) all the things that Richard did.

[Danileriver23]

Richard has experienced more than Sam will EVER. He has fought in wars, lead the Nova Corps, is respected by his peers, loved by women, and has matured into a badass of the cosmos. Sam is none of those things, and it's insulting how Marvel thinks that Sam is the one true Nova. If Sam goes into war like Rich and experiences the things he's been through then I can sympathize.

I don't think it's fair to say that sam will never experience that, but thats just my opinion.

However, how can you expect sam to be all of those things? He hasn't even been here that long. He has less than 50 issues under his belt. Yeah Richard Rider became the "last" nova for a while and held the nova force in his hands and was pretty awesome. But he's dead and gone (for now). So as of right now, Sam IS the one true nova because there are no other nova's left that we know of (except his dad I guess?).

But again, he's still a fairly new character. Do you really want them to cram all that crazy stuff into like 40 issues of his first series? imagine if the all the greatest spiderman stories were told back to back in his first 100 issues. he would've gotten so stale so fast. He just needs time to build up.

Also, in regards to his character, do you really want a super awesome kick-ass character that is essentially a Richard rider clone, or do you want some who is a big contrast to Richard rider so WHEN he comes back (let's be honest, he'll be back) so that they can bounce off each other?

[t hedge coke]

I don't think it's fair to say that sam will never experience that, but thats just my opinion.

However, how can you expect sam to be all of those things? He hasn't even been here that long. He has less than 50 issues under his belt. Yeah Richard Rider became the "last" nova for a while and held the nova force in his hands and was pretty awesome. But he's dead and gone (for now). So as of right now, Sam IS the one true nova because there are no other nova's left that we know of (except his dad I guess?).

But again, he's still a fairly new character. Do you really want them to cram all that crazy stuff into like 40 issues of his first series? imagine if the all the greatest spiderman stories were told back to back in his first 100 issues. he would've gotten so stale so fast. He just needs time to build up.

Also, in regards to his character, do you really want a super awesome kick-ass character that is essentially a Richard rider clone, or do you want some who is a big contrast to Richard rider so WHEN he comes back (let's be honest, he'll be back) so that they can bounce off each other?

I totally want to agree with this. And in spirit, I do.

But forty/fifty issues is a hella long time, really. If you don't do amazing badass stuff at least twenty times in fifty issues, you've wasted a superhero comic's potential.

[Baron of Faltine]

I don't think it's fair to say that sam will never experience that, but thats just my opinion.

However, how can you expect sam to be all of those things? He hasn't even been here that long. He has less than 50 issues under his belt. Yeah Richard Rider became the "last" nova for a while and held the nova force in his hands and was pretty awesome. But he's dead and gone (for now). So as of right now, Sam IS the one true nova because there are no other nova's left that we know of (except his dad I guess?).

But again, he's still a fairly new character. Do you really want them to cram all that crazy stuff into like 40 issues of his first series? imagine if the all the greatest spiderman stories were told back to back in his first 100 issues. he would've gotten so stale so fast. He just needs time to build up.

Also, in regards to his character, do you really want a super awesome kick-ass character that is essentially a Richard rider clone, or do you want some who is a big contrast to Richard rider so WHEN he comes back (let's be honest, he'll be back) so that they can bounce off each other?

Yeah, how come that no one is ever willing to give new character not even the time to shine? Nova, till Annihilation, was kind of a lame forgotted C-level hero. He was at sma elevel of Darkhawk(incidentally they tried to boost Darkhawk as well shortl after the success in making Nova more plaatable hero, but they failed , sadly. WHY ALL HEROES AND HEROINES I LIKE ARE DOOMED TO LIMBO!!! WTF!!! )

But is pointless discussion right now.
So far this threa dis becoming the non-mutant version of the Complex.
Unreasonable old people whining about the things changing in a medium they used to think like it was their personal property, to the hell anyone who has different taste from them or evne the owner of the company or even the authors-
Anmd one keep wondering why they don't stop buying comics at all and why they feel the need to share their feeling right here?

[shgs]

If Stan Lee, one of the architects of the Marvel Universe as we know it, is saying that you should create new characters if you want diversity, why is it that the current crop of Marvel editors and marketing people can't come up with a way of doing it? It almost feels like Marvel is turning into Hollywood (unable to come up with new concepts and just rehashing and reformatting old ideas). What happened to the House Of Ideas? Did they just run out of imagination after Disney bought them?

This has already been covered but it is obviously because the comic market is completely different today than it was in Lee's era. For starters, you can't pick up a comic for pocket change any more, which means customers are a lot less eager to spend their money on an unknown quantity like a new property, which means that the industry is a lot more risk-averse. There are no more anthologies to try out new characters. Not to mention, its a hell of a lot harder coming up with an original concept when nearly a century's worth of superhero comic writers have beaten you to the punch. Stan Lee had a clean slate, near enough, modern writers don't get that luxury. Then there's the fact that now their biggest audience is nostalgic, obdurate 30-40 year olds rather than wide-eyed children, the coincidentally market is a lot less receptive to new ideas, or old ideas dusted-off and presented in a new light as the case may be.

[shgs]

Unreasonable old people whining about the things changing in a medium they used to think like it was their personal property, to the hell anyone who has different taste from them or evne the owner of the company or even the authors-

It's funny how the 'PC police are ruining my comics' crowd never seem to account for the fact these comics are written, and drawn, and edited by people who have worked very hard to get where they are and might, might just love comics themselves and might, might just have their own opinions on what they want from a superhero comic.

[dragonmp93]

It's funny how the 'PC police are ruining my comics' crowd never seem to account for the fact these comics are written, and drawn, and edited by people who have worked very hard to get where they are and might, might just love comics themselves and might, might just have their own opinions on what they want from a superhero comic.

Well, in TV Tropes this is known as "running the asylum"; and in some cases, like with certain someone who loves Spider-man, you can end up with an abomination like One More Day.

[My Two Cents]

I am old
I grew up reading Marvel and continued for decades
the last two decades I found my love for the characters and comics to grow less and less
these last few years I have grown to like many of the new characters and changes and
now look forward to following Marvel full time again this fall.

[Shirayuki]

Well, the things is, from i have seen, Marvel is trying to make people believe that Sam already did (offscreen somehow) all the things that Richard did.

I don't really see where you're getting that from.

[Uggha]

Unreasonable old people whining about the things changing in a medium they used to think like it was their personal property, to the hell anyone who has different taste from them or evne the owner of the company or even the authors-
Anmd one keep wondering why they don't stop buying comics at all and why they feel the need to share their feeling right here?

I am 44 but I guess that is old. All I can say is I never heard Marvel complain about taking my money for 30+ years. They were glad to have me invest emotionally in a serial story and character and funnel plenty of money their way. I am sorry if I expect loyal patronage for decades to count for something. As far as being old, it also has afforded me pretty good disposable income. I am not rich but I make well into the six digits and it allows me to spend on hobbies/entertainment. I am sure there are plenty of "old people" in similar circumstances and if a company wants to write us off when were are well into the prime of our earning potential, so be it I guess. Rather than try to change any minds through web board diatribe, I suggest that they take their "old self" and their money and apply it elsewhere. It will have more effect and their are always other things to spend it on, or just the plain virtue of saving.

[dragonmp93]

I don't really see where you're getting that from.

From Scans-daily.

[THANOSRULES]

Peter Parker, Steve Rogers & Thor are still around. We might not like HOW they are still around but they are around. Fans of these guys have nothing to complain about. They all will be back to work sooner or later-those fans just have to sit back and try to enjoy the ride.

A character yanked away would be Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Wally West, Static & Jaime Reyes. Those fans got told to get lost by management & DC fans. The exact same thing happening to them is sort of the same with Peter and friends. Only difference is you got 50 threads.




In the past that was true but now? If Miles's book fails-was due to story or his race?

I would say his race because that is ALL I keep hearing about. Rarely about the content. And while you think complaining about the race of that character will get rid of him-sorry it won't.

All you have done in your complaining is give FREE PRESS to Marvel in their "diversity campaign" and make ALL comic book fans look bad.

How many other books like Dr. Strange are getting ignored because everyone wants to go off on Miles, Lady Thor, Captain Falcon & Ms Marvel?

What comic book fans have to understand is it's not about YOU.

It's about getting new readers. It's about dominanting the entire comic market. It's about making new viable properties for movies to go after other markets.

Could they have used Eli Bradley, Black Panther and Hulking? Yes but we still saw complaints. Marvel was not going to win no matter who they used with some people.

You want Steve Roger back? Support Captain Falcon while ENCOURAGING Marvel that you can't wait to see Falcon back as himself in his now solo series.

But all this complain threads and screaming agenda & SJW mess has to stop. You are not helping your cause.

I agree with a lot of what you've put down here...in the end I just disagree with some of the strategy.

I don't feel Marvel needs to dominate the entire comic market. They just need to be viable and make a lot of money all the while delivering great stories to fans. This isn't a war.

It does seem to be true that sales matter less. Sam Nova was in cancellation range for a year and drove on, Captain Marvel has always struggled with sales and has not performed well yet gets relaunch after relaunch. Characters like Bucky, Moon Knight and master of Kung Fu keep getting shoved down our throats and never sell.

Let me add, keeping die hard fans around and keeping fans as your top priority should be the goal. Marvel has claimed this is not there focus right now, instead 'Stories' are...and I don't really buy that line. Good Stories have always been part of the mix. Stories and fans were the top priority to the older Marvel. They didn't treat fans like stand ins whose goal it is to replace. Sometimes I do feel that way...that marvel wants to replace ME as a fan.

Its just... corporate bullshit abounds at marvel now more than ever.

I don't feel like I'm dealing with smiling Stan lee or even Joe Quesada or Axel ALonso anymore..I feel like dark masters in shiny suits move beyond the veil controlling everything with calculated agendas. I can't really guess them much anymore...but I got to wake up in the morning...and I'm not going to support something I'm not on board with or I feel isn't worth my hard earned bucks or my kids bucks.