Page 4 of 26 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 385
  1. #46
    Mighty Member neohuey89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William300 View Post
    they are shaking it up, it's been revealed that Miles will be the main Spider-Man, and Carol Danvers will probably be pretty important, same with Black Panther
    which is why I'm in favor of All New All Different Marvel.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William300 View Post
    yea it kind of does. You can't accuse someone of being racist against black people when they complain about Sam being Cap if the person himself is black.
    Never seen Dave Chapelle's (blind Klan member) Clayton Bigsby or Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks, have you?

    And more importantly "diversity" includes a lot more than just "black issues" so let's not make this about something that it isn't.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 06-22-2015 at 11:17 AM.

  3. #48
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Been said a billion, billion times but to pile on the great big pile of obvious points:

    This is a business based on serialized stories of established characters spanning decades. They have the options of 1. Keeping everything the same forever, in which case the public likely gets bored or shrinks to a small enough size that they go out of business or 2. they switch things up every now and again to keep things fresh and build demand for the original (absence makes the yada yada).

    Right now we're in a "switch things up" phase for quite a few of Marvel's major brands. Kind of like DC in the early '90s. Gets mainstream media attention, boosts sales temporarily, maybe brings a few more temporary eyeballs on the product and a small percentage of those might go on to be regular customers. If you don't like what you're seeing in this era of Marvel, wait a few years. It's like the weather, it'll change back. And it'll change again. And so on, and so on, unless and until comics don't exist anymore.
    From me perspective we are the "switch things up" phase in the last 10 years and there is no end to see.

    The schema is roughly like this: Promoted, changed , put through dirt , killed off.
    We have seen it countless times first the X-Men->promoted(movies)->changed in comics (more more mutants)->killed off(M-day), some goes for Avengers/Cap/Iron-man with CW, the last was "Times run out" with a few hand picked characters. The UU titles were a bit different put the killing off was more literally.

    It clear that they need to replace some characters through the fact they burned down so many put I didn't foresee that they do it triple the uselessly put some one into the change/dirt cycle(X-Men), putting some new outside the line into the game (Cap/Thor) and killing some off (Black Bolt) and spare some heroes from recent events (Iron-man, Black Panther, Dr.Strange) to sell them.(Ah awkward). This is the characters side and we still missing our good old stories were a villain shows up with a plan to conquer the world.

    I know good and new ideas which built up enough tension in a superhero story are not so easy to make but eh that what they are paid for.
    Maybe it is just this moment in time where Hickman's story isn't finished and the changes aren't full in effect so we can actually see the new Marvel Universe but it looks and feels like Marvel Comics are off the rails for now and they try to get into overdrive and burning through their engine.

    So I do the same I went more into DC comics, they changed also a few things up but at least the stories looks not so different from when I looked into it the last time.

  4. #49
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    Well then drop it, I only buy titles featuring certain characters (that's why I've stuck with Marvel since childhood) that I love, I've tried following creators for a bit but found that while they may be an excellent fit for one title (Gillen on X-Men, Waid on Daredevil, they are a poor fit for another Gillen's Iron Man run, Waid's Hulk.)

    If "All New Marvel" turn's out to be a continuity nightmare with all these different cherry picked universe heroes trying to act like everything is normal then I'll probably be done with Marvel.

  5. #50
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Well then drop it, I only buy titles featuring certain characters (that's why I've stuck with Marvel since childhood) that I love, I've tried following creators for a bit but found that while they may be an excellent fit for one title (Gillen on X-Men, Waid on Daredevil, they are a poor fit for another Gillen's Iron Man run, Waid's Hulk.)

    If "All New Marvel" turn's out to be a continuity nightmare with all these different cherry picked universe heroes trying to act like everything is normal then I'll probably be done with Marvel.
    I dropped 70% of my titles automatically at the moment because Marvel don't release them anymore ^^(at least for now)

  6. #51
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    Hell yeah you can. You may not have experience with this concept, but yes, black people can in fact be racist and support white supremacy. And there are quite a few that do.

    And going back to the topic, it's very possible for a minority to say, "hey, I want an all-white marvel because... *insert something messed up about black heroes*." I've seen it more than enough times to know that it's a thing.


    Being black doesn't mean you're immune to hating black people. That's a really un-examined claim.
    What you say about self-race-hatred is true. It also makes assumptions about OP's character and opinion that are not part of the post.

    The post (as I read it) states that he would rather have new characters of color, rather than have character's he has liked over the years altered. Also, his objections are not solely race based: note that one of his issues with the new MU is that Marvel is attempting to supplant Spider-Man's face-of-brand role with Iron Man. I will grant you that it's an angry post, perhaps even overly so, and the solutions proposed are not likely feasible for a number of reasons.

    However, the OP's post doesn't automatically make him a deliberate tool of a racist agenda, nor does it mean that he hates people of his own color, which is what your interpretation implicitly states. Disagreeing with your position on issues in which race is a portion of the debate do not automatically make the other party a racist. Issues of equality and racism are never going to make any progress unless people move away from that assumption.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member shgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandacrystal22 View Post
    Oops I mean relaunch. Everything is rubbing me the wrong way. I'm about to get more DC comics for my superhero crave because they are trying to do some innovative things. They are not perfect, but they are learning. Marvel looks like they are being controlled by higher ups that want to kick out the old generation and go for the new MCU/Ultimate Spider-man generation. That pisses me off.
    Sooooooooooooo, you don't like the changes Marvel is making so you are going to DC because they are innovative? You realise innovation requires change, right? Not to mention, though I don't follow DC very closely, a lot of their newest books seem to be copying Marvel's push both in diversity and in books with a lighter, more all-ages tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    The post (as I read it) states that he would rather have new characters of color, rather than have character's he has liked over the years altered.
    As has been pointed out already, saying that diversity should come from entirely new characters is tantamount to saying we shouldn't have diversity. Here's the quote, because Prof Warren expressed it very well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    One, it's essentially a racist argument. What you're really saying is that the only way a female or minority character should succeed in any "valid" way is for them to start at the back of the line. If they don't, any success they have isn't "real." It's saying that even though these other established characters have a headstart in every way, doing anything to give female or minority characters a leg up in visibility (like letting them take on the mantle of a popular hero) is the equivalent of cheating and is unfairly "rigging the game," so to speak.
    It's also worth pointing out that the closest Marvel has come to promoting a new diverse character in the way the OP says they should is Kamala who he then goes on to complain about appearing in ANAD Avengers. What happened to
    1. Create [or in this case feature] that character in a popular title to give him that attention
    and
    3. You PROMOTE the character anywhere you can
    ?

    It's just hollow, insincere hand-waving.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,913

    Default

    To O.P.:

    In regards to your 5 step process, they did that for ms marvsl nova and miles Morales, but u don't seemed too pleased about them.

    Also, while agree ms marvel should not be on the team, nova and ultimate spiderman have both earned their spots.

    Sure, nova is a kid, but he also is extremely powerful due to the nova force, he defeated the hulk in axis, has saved the world multiple times in his short tenure, and was already enlisted as a reserve avenger at the end of axis.

    I don't know much of miles Morales, but he has already taken the mantle of his worlds spiderman, I believe he was an ultimate and worked with his shield, and has some hero experience.

    Kamala...yeah, she doesn't belong.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    South Italy near Naples
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandacrystal22 View Post
    From what I heard about the new MU, I am very concerned if it will be the Marvel we know and love. Instead I'm hearing political correctness for this "reboot". Oops I mean relaunch. Everything is rubbing me the wrong way. I'm about to get more DC comics for my superhero crave because they are trying to do some innovative things. They are not perfect, but they are learning. Marvel looks like they are being controlled by higher ups that want to kick out the old generation and go for the new MCU/Ultimate Spider-man generation. That pisses me off. Hell, Marvel is trying to do a half assed attempt for a young avengers with putting Kamala, Sam, and, Miles to the Avengers. Are the veterans so irresponsible that they would have CHILDREN on a response group team?! Also, I'm still mad the way they are treating the Nova Corps. Also, Iron Man being the mascot of Marvel….fat chance. Good luck dethroning Spidey. All because RDJ and his EGO.

    The reason why I'm ranting is because i'm worried and concerned that what's left of 616 won't be as iconic in the new universe. I'm all up for chance and modernization. But, changing for the sake of change gets me frustrated. What get's me really upset is the race and gender changing. That really irritates me. I'll tell you what I don't like:


    Sam Wilson as the New Captain America (Sam is not as fun as he was when he was Falcon)

    Jane Foster as Thor (Don't care what anyone says…THERE IS ONLY ONE THOR AND HIS NAME IS ODINSON)


    I feel like they are gonna race change and gender swap the old characters…. as a black man I ask this….WHY NOT CREATE NEW CHARACTERS?! HOW HARD IS IT TO PROMOTE.


    Here's how to do it:


    1. Create that character in a popular title to give him that attention (like Spider-man)

    2. You announce a solo title for the character

    3. You PROMOTE the character anywhere you can (Conventions, TV, Comic stores, etc)

    4. Put a great writer of color or gender to that character. Hell even someone white would be good if they can understand the character and give them a mythology for them (AL EWING)

    5. Get an A list artist to be on a title for each arc.



    THERE: see how easy that was. I don't think what's so hard about this.

    Wrapping up: Are you all afraid of the Marvel Universe not being the MU you know for 75 years. Do you agree with Marvel's PC changes or some of it's hate for certain characters and things not in the Universe?
    Your point are, at times good at times very wrong.
    I just want to say, chill out, is not that bad. Jane/thor is actually quite enjoyable read, and Falconcap had his own good moment when not derailed by this or that event. But even for events, things are getting better. Secret Wars is simply delihgtful.
    so keep calm. Everything is in flux, times go on, the comcic world is nowaday huge, is not that there are no othe roption of comic to read.
    Relax. You don't like it? Drop it. A this point we as fandom should be mature enough that we should not compelled to follow a comic we don't like just because feature a character, or a nominal title we used to like. comic is an old enough medium, and MC an old enough franchise(thank god it merged with disney or i would not have bet on its survival beyond another 20 years at best.)

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Baron of Faltine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    South Italy near Naples
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shgs View Post
    Sooooooooooooo, you don't like the changes Marvel is making so you are going to DC because they are innovative? You realise innovation requires change, right? Not to mention, though I don't follow DC very closely, a lot of their newest books seem to be copying Marvel's push both in diversity and in books with a lighter, more all-ages tone.
    I think his problem, common to way too many odler fan is that they do not handle well changes, at least changes that somehow interfer with their usual style of reading.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I will grant you that it's an angry post, perhaps even overly so, and the solutions proposed are not likely feasible for a number of reasons.
    Bingo. It's not easy to just toss out new guys. Legacy or new guy-there will always be an issue.

    It comes down to are you willing to HONESTLY give a new guy a shot?

    It does not hurt to read that book and give an HONEST opinion about it.



    Disagreeing with your position on issues in which race is a portion of the debate do not automatically make the other party a racist. Issues of equality and racism are never going to make any progress unless people move away from that assumption.
    But the main folks crying are those who won't read the book in the first place.

    They are the ones who scream I hate Black Panther but can't tell you the story line or issue that they read that made them dislike the character.

    All they see is a minority that in their minds has no business in comics.

    It's that vocal bunch that we keep hearing.

  12. #57
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shgs View Post
    Sooooooooooooo, you don't like the changes Marvel is making so you are going to DC because they are innovative? You realise innovation requires change, right? Not to mention, though I don't follow DC very closely, a lot of their newest books seem to be copying Marvel's push both in diversity and in books with a lighter, more all-ages tone.
    One major difference between Marvel & DC.

    Marvel-the majority of your POC & LGBT are established guys with histories. Along with new ones.

    DC-They have buried the majority of their established POC with a few new ones. Their face of minorities is a black guy missing body parts.

    At least Marvel is giving you a variety of POC that folks are interested in.

    Now in terms of book tones-you are right.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Double 0's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    What you say about self-race-hatred is true. It also makes assumptions about OP's character and opinion that are not part of the post.
    Nope, it's just refuting the idea that black people can't be racist towards black people. Had little to do with the OP.

    The post (as I read it) states that he would rather have new characters of color, rather than have character's he has liked over the years altered. Also, his objections are not solely race based: note that one of his issues with the new MU is that Marvel is attempting to supplant Spider-Man's face-of-brand role with Iron Man. I will grant you that it's an angry post, perhaps even overly so, and the solutions proposed are not likely feasible for a number of reasons.
    Besides the "make new characters" argument being the biggest load of crap comic fans love hugging when diversity is brought up, him screaming about PC is not helping his case in the least bit.

    However, the OP's post doesn't automatically make him a deliberate tool of a racist agenda, nor does it mean that he hates people of his own color, which is what your interpretation implicitly states. Disagreeing with your position on issues in which race is a portion of the debate do not automatically make the other party a racist. Issues of equality and racism are never going to make any progress unless people move away from that assumption.
    Didn't imply the latter (or the former, again, it was refuting another post), but about the former, I think trying the "make new characters" argument without doing research as to WHY creators aren't going for that, or better yet, why he isn't looking beyond the Marvel universe for those new characters, is supporting an agenda he probably doesn't want to.

    The other part is hogwash you trying to box well above your weightclass, also an assumption of why I posted what I did.
    Last edited by Double 0; 06-22-2015 at 01:32 PM.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." — DeRay Mckesson

  14. #59
    BANNED Wandacrystal22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    467

    Default

    @ Double 0-NO, I do not hate my own people, I'm just a normal american comic book fan who doesn't like what he sees from Marvel and has the RIGHT say what I don't like, just like people that rag on Dc's New 52. Don't assume!! I like what DC's doing, I don't like what Marvel is doing and this is coming from a HUGE Marvel fan growing up.

  15. #60
    BANNED Wandacrystal22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    467

    Default

    And to the people that are saying that Marvel does diversity with their teenage heroes....THEY ARE STILL names from prexisting WHITE MALE/FEMALE HEROES. And Sam is basically a joke. Sam defeated the Hulk.....RICHARD RIDER TOOK ANNIHULUS INTESTINES FROM HIS STOMACH. I also don't like how Jeph Loeb created Sam to be an idiot. Kamala is adorable so I don't have that much an argument since her character is great. Miles is a hit and miss. He can be interesting, but Bendis needs to get his grip off him and let someone else write him.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •