The New Marvel Universe: I'm not liking this.

[marvelprince]

When the OP started going off about "political correctedness" I knew where this thread was headed but I clicked it anyway. Thats on me

[Uggha]

I get why you're doing what you're doing, it just seems like horrible money management. If your entire investment was in bruce banner, I don't get why you'd drop 125 on what you consider auxiliary titles wherein just losing him(which we don't even know to be the case) suddenly drops all of your expenses by that amount. Just kinda seems wasteful. I mean it's your money, but man, man, maaaaaan.

It was also part hobby. I bag, board, and box everything. I like to read but I also like novels are there are certainly no shortage of interesting books to read. I am fortunate that I have the means to have that kind on hobby money monthly it will just go elsewhere now.

[Danileriver23]

Considering Kamala's unique power-set and her idolization of Carol, I'd say she at least deserves a shot.

Like I said before, so long as it is an interesting story, I'll check it out, and seeing how team rookies like Miles and Kamala interact with old pros like Sam and Thor will be worth checking out.

Honestly, as a fan of Kamala, she might be the only one to make me pick up an Avengers title.

Don't get me wrong, I love kamala. And while im sure there a number of reason why you like her, I think I'm safe in assuming you love her sweet and innocent personality, is that correct?

Avengers is going to ruin that.

Now, it's not like the avengers is a super dark book or anything, but in the preview issue alone, they faced a guy who radioactively cooked a room full of people. And if you look at the avngers titles in the past year, they're dealing with mass murderers and psychopath and things of that nature.

Like I said, for miles, this type of thing won't be new (hell, his whole universe will be dead. that's dark as hell) and Nova is kind of in the same vein as kamala, but at least he has faced death and serious threats before.

What has been kamala's biggest challenge thus far? She fought a bird person who kidnapped kids to use as batteries, and got upset because a guy she fell in love with in a day betrayed her. Yeah, that's bad. It's not genocide bad. After being on that team, it's going to ruin her bright sunny outlook on life, which would actually make a great coming of age story, except she's only been around for about a year, give or take. it is WAY too soon to put her on a team who has a rogue gallery of Ultron, Kang, and Red Skull.

How do you think a teenager would respond to being pitted against a Nazi Terrorist?

Im not hating on your opinion, if you're excited about her on the team, that's fine. Just putting in my 2 cents.

[PretenderNX01]

When the OP started going off about "political correctedness" I knew where this thread was headed but I clicked it anyway. Thats on me

Pretty much.
I love how people ignore sales though- Jane as Thor sells more than Thor as Thor did in a long time but to "fans" there is only one Thor and it's just PC.

[rdman]

Pretty much.
I love how people ignore sales though- Jane as Thor sells more than Thor as Thor did in a long time but to "fans" there is only one Thor and it's just PC.

Marketing push and the fact that Marvel was dumping a lot of those books on to the stores.

Nevertheless I wish they bring back man-Thor.

[ZephyrSurf]

Marketing push and the fact that Marvel was dumping a lot of those books on to the stores.

Nevertheless I wish they bring back man-Thor.

Jane thor doesn't have the marketing push of male thor (I mean really, Avengers and his two movies kinda blows any marketing another thor could work with out the water.)

And Marvel can't push books on comic shops. That's not how the business works.

[Prof. Warren]

No but because my favorite character was part of a shared universe, I actually bought into the Marvel U and on average bought 30 Marvel titles a month. So they didn't just loose my money on Hulk but destroyed my interest in the entire Marvel U, since Bruce/Hulk will no longer be part of it.

I have wanted to get back into Model Railroading which isn't cheap when done to any detail. I'm sure Atlas, MTH, Rivarossi, etc. will be glad to take my money.

I'm sure there are plenty of other 30-40 year old fans who done well and have a lot of disposable income and my advice would be take it and put into another interest if you don't like current events because words would be meaningless and a waste of time. Sales are the only language that carry any weight.

I commend your decision to spend money on what you enjoy but, out of genuine curiosity, I have to ask: if Bruce Banner is still a part of the Marvel U (just not as the Hulk), wouldn't whatever his character's up to be of interest to you? And also - if Bruce isn't the Hulk for a period of time but then becomes the Hulk again, would that bring you back to reading and also encourage you to "catch up" on stories you'd missed in the interim?

I ask because, as a Spider-Man fan I loved the Superior Spider-Man storyline. Yes, Peter Parker was (for the most part) out of the picture but I found it interesting to see Spider-Man's world from a different perspective. Also, I felt confident that Peter would, in time, return so in the end it's all part of "his" story. And with Miles Morales becoming the prime Spider-Man in the Marvel U, post SW, I'm interested in the part Peter will be playing. Whatever it is, it might not be the same status as I'm used to for Peter but I'm curious about it and will decide my feelings for it in time.

I'm not trying to sway your opinion, mind you, but the different mentality fans have fascinates me. Some are heavily invested in a particular character and only if they're depicted in a particular way (within certain parameters). Others enjoy seeing characters take unexpected turns and find the occasional dramatic change to be exciting. Neither perspective is right or wrong, just different. I'm sure an interesting psychological study could be done to examine the contrary attitudes of comic fans in this regard.

[Danileriver23]

And to the people that are saying that Marvel does diversity with their teenage heroes....THEY ARE STILL names from prexisting WHITE MALE/FEMALE HEROES. And Sam is basically a joke. Sam defeated the Hulk.....RICHARD RIDER TOOK ANNIHULUS INTESTINES FROM HIS STOMACH. I also don't like how Jeph Loeb created Sam to be an idiot. Kamala is adorable so I don't have that much an argument since her character is great. Miles is a hit and miss. He can be interesting, but Bendis needs to get his grip off him and let someone else write him.

...So Richard Rider brutally murdered someone...that's cool I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Richard Rider (although he has probably the worst name in comics considering his first names shorthand is "Dick") and his mythos, but there is nothing wrong with Sam. He warned the Avengers of the Phoenix Force in AvX, I know you're not impressed with him defeating Kluh, but it still displayed him saving people against insurmountable odds, he defeated carnage as well, who gave spiderman a run for his money on multiple occasions and then he saved the world from a meteor shower, and ran one of the leaders of the chitauri through a sun.

And yeah he is kind of dopey, but he's a kid. kids are stupid. Kamala's dumb too, she's just more sweet so people don't like to hate on her. But him being kind of a halfwit was all part of his evolution. It's whats called a "character-arc". Sure he isn't gonna be the next reed Richards, but he's not supposed to be. he's supposed to be an average kid given great power who uses it to do good and take care of people (KIND OF LIKE PETER PARKER) which he does ALL the time. In fact, he is one of the few heroes who spends more time saving people than fighting villians.

I'm not telling you to like the character. I'm not the Character Police. But don't hate on him for essentially non-existent reasons.

[MyriVerse]

Pretty much.
I love how people ignore sales though- Jane as Thor sells more than Thor as Thor did in a long time but to "fans" there is only one Thor and it's just PC.

Except it's not Jane as Thor. It's still Thor as Thor. Jane is just support. And they've gimped her.

[Wandacrystal22]

...So Richard Rider brutally murdered someone...that's cool I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Richard Rider (although he has probably the worst name in comics considering his first names shorthand is "Dick") and his mythos, but there is nothing wrong with Sam. He warned the Avengers of the Phoenix Force in AvX, I know you're not impressed with him defeating Kluh, but it still displayed him saving people against insurmountable odds, he defeated carnage as well, who gave spiderman a run for his money on multiple occasions and then he saved the world from a meteor shower, and ran one of the leaders of the chitauri through a sun.

And yeah he is kind of dopey, but he's a kid. kids are stupid. Kamala's dumb too, she's just more sweet so people don't like to hate on her. But him being kind of a halfwit was all part of his evolution. It's whats called a "character-arc". Sure he isn't gonna be the next reed Richards, but he's not supposed to be. he's supposed to be an average kid given great power who uses it to do good and take care of people (KIND OF LIKE PETER PARKER) which he does ALL the time. In fact, he is one of the few heroes who spends more time saving people than fighting villians.

I'm not telling you to like the character. I'm not the Character Police. But don't hate on him for essentially non-existent reasons.

Richard has experienced more than Sam will EVER. He has fought in wars, lead the Nova Corps, is respected by his peers, loved by women, and has matured into a badass of the cosmos. Sam is none of those things, and it's insulting how Marvel thinks that Sam is the one true Nova. If Sam goes into war like Rich and experiences the things he's been through then I can sympathize.

[skyvolt2000]

The lack of empathy, as always, abounds. Its a tough pill to swallow to have your favorite character yanked away and thrown in a dumpster or pushed aside. Nobody deals with the notion well. The OP is just expressing that. I agree, this sentiment is high right now...because it is really an issue when so many characters are messed with.
.

Peter Parker, Steve Rogers & Thor are still around. We might not like HOW they are still around but they are around. Fans of these guys have nothing to complain about. They all will be back to work sooner or later-those fans just have to sit back and try to enjoy the ride.

A character yanked away would be Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Wally West, Static & Jaime Reyes. Those fans got told to get lost by management & DC fans. The exact same thing happening to them is sort of the same with Peter and friends. Only difference is you got 50 threads.

Ultimately, I fully agree with the poster who said "You don't have to buy" its the simplest equation and what sends the strongest message.

In the past that was true but now? If Miles's book fails-was due to story or his race?

I would say his race because that is ALL I keep hearing about. Rarely about the content. And while you think complaining about the race of that character will get rid of him-sorry it won't.

All you have done in your complaining is give FREE PRESS to Marvel in their "diversity campaign" and make ALL comic book fans look bad.

How many other books like Dr. Strange are getting ignored because everyone wants to go off on Miles, Lady Thor, Captain Falcon & Ms Marvel?

What comic book fans have to understand is it's not about YOU.

It's about getting new readers. It's about dominanting the entire comic market. It's about making new viable properties for movies to go after other markets.

Could they have used Eli Bradley, Black Panther and Hulking? Yes but we still saw complaints. Marvel was not going to win no matter who they used with some people.

You want Steve Roger back? Support Captain Falcon while ENCOURAGING Marvel that you can't wait to see Falcon back as himself in his now solo series.

But all this complain threads and screaming agenda & SJW mess has to stop. You are not helping your cause.

[vaf2675]

Here's how to do it:


1. Create that character in a popular title to give him that attention (like Spider-man)

2. You announce a solo title for the character

3. You PROMOTE the character anywhere you can (Conventions, TV, Comic stores, etc)

4. Put a great writer of color or gender to that character. Hell even someone white would be good if they can understand the character and give them a mythology for them (AL EWING)

5. Get an A list artist to be on a title for each arc.

I agree with all your points. The whole gender and race swapping to me are just cheap marketing ploys and not really meant to add diversity to the lines themselves (Both DC and Marvel are guilty of using this gimmick).

I'm a male latino myself, and while I may be happy to see a latino getting a big marketing push, as in the case of Miles Morales, I can't help but think that to me Spider-Man will always be Peter Parker. I could see Marvel replacing Peter if they killed that character off (like they did in the Ultimate Universe), but when you have the original Spider-Man still hanging around, it makes no sense to me that Peter would allow this kid to take over his gig.

Also agree with you about the fact that the Avengers have way too many children in the team now. Really Tony? Really Steve? You think is ok to leave the fate of the world in the hands of children who don't have a tenth of the experience that the old Avengers had? Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense!

As for Jane Thor and Falcon Cap? Sorry, but I'm just not feeling it either.

Even Stan Lee has come out in articles stating: "It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that,” Lee said. “Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.”

If Stan Lee, one of the architects of the Marvel Universe as we know it, is saying that you should create new characters if you want diversity, why is it that the current crop of Marvel editors and marketing people can't come up with a way of doing it? It almost feels like Marvel is turning into Hollywood (unable to come up with new concepts and just rehashing and reformatting old ideas). What happened to the House Of Ideas? Did they just run out of imagination after Disney bought them?

[Uggha]

I commend your decision to spend money on what you enjoy but, out of genuine curiosity, I have to ask: if Bruce Banner is still a part of the Marvel U (just not as the Hulk), wouldn't whatever his character's up to be of interest to you? And also - if Bruce isn't the Hulk for a period of time but then becomes the Hulk again, would that bring you back to reading and also encourage you to "catch up" on stories you'd missed in the interim?

I ask because, as a Spider-Man fan I loved the Superior Spider-Man storyline. Yes, Peter Parker was (for the most part) out of the picture but I found it interesting to see Spider-Man's world from a different perspective. Also, I felt confident that Peter would, in time, return so in the end it's all part of "his" story. And with Miles Morales becoming the prime Spider-Man in the Marvel U, post SW, I'm interested in the part Peter will be playing. Whatever it is, it might not be the same status as I'm used to for Peter but I'm curious about it and will decide my feelings for it in time.

I'm not trying to sway your opinion, mind you, but the different mentality fans have fascinates me. Some are heavily invested in a particular character and only if they're depicted in a particular way (within certain parameters). Others enjoy seeing characters take unexpected turns and find the occasional dramatic change to be exciting. Neither perspective is right or wrong, just different. I'm sure an interesting psychological study could be done to examine the contrary attitudes of comic fans in this regard.

Bruce Banner still being involved but just as a scientist would not interest me. As to what I would do if they restored the Banner/Hulk as the status quo in the future, I can not really say if I would engage in Marvel again. For certain, it wouldn't be at the level I read and collect now. I have always wanted to build an HO scale prototype layout of the C&O Railroad during its late Steam Era. I would imagine if I am fully involved in that I may try a Hulk issue out if they restore the the status quo but it's just as likely my hobby collecting days are at an end.

[Prof. Warren]

Richard has experienced more than Sam will EVER. He has fought in wars, lead the Nova Corps, is respected by his peers, loved by women, and has matured into a badass of the cosmos. Sam is none of those things, and it's insulting how Marvel thinks that Sam is the one true Nova. If Sam goes into war like Rich and experiences the things he's been through then I can sympathize.

Um, you do know that Sam could easily go on to experience just as much, if not more than, Rich, right? Because, you know, he's a young character early in his adventures and presumably has many more stories ahead of him.

Even Stan Lee has come out in articles stating: "It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that,” Lee said. “Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to. Hell, I’ll do it myself.”

If Stan Lee, one of the architects of the Marvel Universe as we know it, is saying that you should create new characters if you want diversity, why is it that the current crop of Marvel editors and marketing people can't come up with a way of doing it? It almost feels like Marvel is turning into Hollywood (unable to come up with new concepts and just rehashing and reformatting old ideas). What happened to the House Of Ideas? Did they just run out of imagination after Disney bought them?

All respect to Stan but he is, like, 90-something years old. His views are bound to be a little more conservative. While I actually do agree with him on keeping characters as they were originated, I don't think he understands the challenges in getting traction for new female and minority characters. Even a classic Lee/Kirby creation like The Black Panther has had a hard time maintaining a solo title for long. So if having Jane Foster serve as Thor or Sam Wilson take on the role of Cap is going to more effectively spotlight females and minorities while still evolving the characters of Odinson and Steve outside of their familiar roles, what's the harm? We've seen time and again that new characters (of any gender or ethnicity) don't garner anywhere near the fanbase of characters that have direct ties to established icons. After awhile, a bolder step is needed in order to move things forward.

A mantle can be passed without diminishing the original character. I wouldn't want the ethnicity of Peter Parker himself to change (because it's a cosmetic alteration that wouldn't really mean anything) but if Miles is appointed to be the prime Spidey of the Marvel Universe (for whatever duration of time it may last), I think that's fine.

[Prof. Warren]

Bruce Banner still being involved but just as a scientist would not interest me. As to what I would do if they restored the Banner/Hulk as the status quo in the future, I can not really say if I would engage in Marvel again. For certain, it wouldn't be at the level I read and collect now. I have always wanted to build an HO scale prototype layout of the C&O Railroad during its late Steam Era. I would imagine if I am fully involved in that I may try a Hulk issue out if they restore the the status quo but it's just as likely my hobby collecting days are at an end.

Fair enough!