GRAYSON #9 Preview/Discussion

[Conway]

I'm definitely enjoying Grayson but sometimes you need an issue that's mostly setup. I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and will be supporting the title. I've remember the Devin Grayson and Bruce Jones Nightwing issues and this is infinitely better. I actually liked it a lot more on second reading.

This is a good assessment. There is actually a lot happening in here, it just gets hidden under the fun parts. I think it did a fine job of showing Dick, Helena, and Agent 1 making the best out of a bad situation, while making sure the story still moved.

As for pandering, there were like three pages of naked Dick, dancing seductive Dick, and one editors note that said "It was badass" (because it was pretty badass). Not exactly a "Lobdell writing Starfire" level of fan-service here.

[Badou]

It seams that you are getting too focused on pandering. Wasting pages? There literally was one line where Agent 1 says "get off your clothes" and one line with Dick saying "do I look straight?". Everything else was character development showing that Dick doesn't like it.

I'm not just counting this one issue. There has been quite a lot of pandering, fanservice and gay/bi baiting throughout the run. Everything with Midnighter, making Dick a gay gym teacher for his cover, constant pandering with Dick's sexualization, the creative team constantly talking about wanting to make him into a "sex icon", and so on. I'm not a fan of that kind of writing when it is so blatant. I don't think it flows well and awkwardly sticks out from the story. I just want good stories in the same vein that Synder's Batman, Azz's Wonder Woman, and even that recent Justice League issue of Johns are good. Where the story is the driving force.

When the pandering and fanservice causes many people following the book to only really care if they are going to made Dick bi/gay, which they might want to do given all the baiting, or if Dick has his shirt off this issue rather than what is happening in the actual story it is becoming a distraction. It just feels cheap to me. It feels like it is there to grab headlines (which that "do I look straight?" line spawned quite a few) and I dislike that kind of writing. Like making Iceman gay, having Superman denounce his American citizenship, or Obama appearing in Spider-man. It is why I don't think Harley Quinn is a very good book because of all the over the top pandering, but at least that is a solo book focused on her personal life where the story isn't that important. Her characterization is what people read it for not the story, so the pandering isn't really distracting from anything, but with Grayson because they have this specific setting and have Dick on this mission doing something he doesn't want to do the story should be the focus. It isn't about Dick's personal life. He doesn't really have one here and is why this book is so different than Nightwing because it isn't about him trying to finally find one and also balance being a hero.

I dunno. I've sort of felt this way for a while and this is me mainly venting because I know that the pandering isn't going to stop. It's just going to get worse. I just don't think it is good writing when you have to take time nearly each issue to constantly remind the reader about something over and over, like Dick being attractive/sexualized. It starts to lose its meaning after a while.

[byrd156]

I'm not just counting this one issue. There has been quite a lot of pandering, fanservice and gay/bi baiting throughout the run. Everything with Midnighter, making Dick a gay gym teacher for his cover, constant pandering with Dick's sexualization, the creative team constantly talking about wanting to make him into a "sex icon", and so on. I'm not a fan of that kind of writing when it is so blatant. I don't think it flows well and awkwardly sticks out from the story. I just want good stories in the same vein that Synder's Batman, Azz's Wonder Woman, and even that recent Justice League issue of Johns are good. Where the story is the driving force.

When the pandering and fanservice causes many people following the book to only really care if they are going to made Dick bi/gay, which they might want to do given all the baiting, or if Dick has his shirt off this issue rather than what is happening in the actual story it is becoming a distraction. It just feels cheap to me. It feels like it is there to grab headlines (which that "do I look straight?" line spawned quite a few) and I dislike that kind of writing. Like making Iceman gay, having Superman denounce his American citizenship, or Obama appearing in Spider-man. It is why I don't think Harley Quinn is a very good book because of all the over the top pandering, but at least that is a solo book focused on her personal life where the story isn't that important. Her characterization is what people read it for not the story, so the pandering isn't really distracting from anything, but with Grayson because they have this specific setting and have Dick on this mission doing something he doesn't want to do the story should be the focus. It isn't about Dick's personal life. He doesn't really have one here and is why this book is so different than Nightwing because it isn't about him trying to finally find one and also balance being a hero.

I dunno. I've sort of felt this way for a while and this is me mainly venting because I know that the pandering isn't going to stop. It's just going to get worse. I just don't think it is good writing when you have to take time nearly each issue to constantly remind the reader about something over and over, like Dick being attractive/sexualized. It starts to lose its meaning after a while.

Dick has been sexualized for awhile now but it wasn't ever in your face about it, I really hope that they tone it down a bit.

[Vinsanity]

Bond is a sociopath. Thankfully nothing in common with this (or any) portrayal of Grayson.

Future Grayson confirmed:


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[Avi]

Dick has been sexualized for awhile now but it wasn't ever in your face about it, I really hope that they tone it down a bit.

I hope so too. I wouldn't have something against small things like Midnighter’s comment in #6 but I don't need issues like #4 and #8 being pulled down by too much talk about how attractive Dick is. We already see it through Janín's art, we don't need a reminder. If they stay at the "sexualizing-level" of #9 or #6 and make a issues without any comment on his attractiveness, too; they could probably find a good balance.

[HsssH]

I'm not just counting this one issue. There has been quite a lot of pandering, fanservice and gay/bi baiting throughout the run. Everything with Midnighter, making Dick a gay gym teacher for his cover, constant pandering with Dick's sexualization, the creative team constantly talking about wanting to make him into a "sex icon", and so on. I'm not a fan of that kind of writing when it is so blatant. I don't think it flows well and awkwardly sticks out from the story. I just want good stories in the same vein that Synder's Batman, Azz's Wonder Woman, and even that recent Justice League issue of Johns are good. Where the story is the driving force.

But plenty of people are enjoying the story, they(we) are discussing storyline and themes in this run. God garden, fist of cain, Paragon, Minos, Grayson/Helena relationship and overall structure and importance of Spyral in DCU has been discussed in every single thread concerning these series. 11 issues of this title have garnered more discussions than 30 issues of Nightwing. Many people who rated Azz's Wonder Woman highly are now saying that Grayson is one of the best, if not the best, DC title being published.

Does it focus on Grayson as possible "sex icon"? Sure, thats what gives this title an edge. Name me another title that features major straight white male character and spends some time on his sexuality? Besides, its 101 for spy stories to mention, directly or indirectly, how charming and "sexy" main character is.

Do some people latch onto lines like "do I look straight?", sure, doesn't mean that I no longer can enjoy the story, which I find well written and with lots of substance. You don't like Grayson, thats fine, but I think thats mostly because you are not interested in this type of story and not because it has couple of ambiguous lines in the issue.

[Godlike13]

Nevermind.

[JustJelly]

I know the earth-3 dick Grayson is supposedly dead but after re-reading the secret society villains month issue they never show him getting killed. Considering the cover of #11 is an evil dick Grayson and he's meeting with lex Luther in #10 who we know has ties with Owlman, I think it's possible that's who it could be. Just a thought.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't mind the pandering to the female gaze and LGBT characters in this run. Dick's an attractive guy, Midnighter flirting with him and commenting on his attractiveness seems natural. And we have so many female characters getting sexualized all over the place, it's kind of refreshing to to have the opposite happen. And it only takes up a couple panels per issue, so what's the big deal?

[joybeans]

It's hardly different from every episode of Arrow showing a salmon ladder scene.

[Claude]

It hasn't bothered me much up until this point, but #9 is a kind of peak of that kind of thing that I wouldn't want them to reach that often. Previously, it's mostly been about the character reaction - this issue was much more Wink At The Audience.

And every likes a Wink To The Audience now and again. Just not every issue.

[dick_wingnut]

I'm not just counting this one issue. There has been quite a lot of pandering, fanservice and gay/bi baiting throughout the run. Everything with Midnighter, making Dick a gay gym teacher for his cover, constant pandering with Dick's sexualization, the creative team constantly talking about wanting to make him into a "sex icon", and so on. I'm not a fan of that kind of writing when it is so blatant. I don't think it flows well and awkwardly sticks out from the story. I just want good stories in the same vein that Synder's Batman, Azz's Wonder Woman, and even that recent Justice League issue of Johns are good. Where the story is the driving force.

Nailed it.

As a grown ass man, reading this **** is embarrassing, and not why I come to the character.

[HLOTS]

Dick has no superpowers, no superior intellect, no distinctive set of skills or deep psychological issues. He only has his “sexiness” going for him. So of course DC is going to exploit that aspect of him.

[Tony Stark]

Hey wanted to ask my fellow Grayson fans. I remember CBR showing a preview of Grayson with him jumping out of a plane Mission Impossible style saving a little boy. What issue is that supposed to be in?

[jules]

Hey wanted to ask my fellow Grayson fans. I remember CBR showing a preview of Grayson with him jumping out of a plane Mission Impossible style saving a little boy. What issue is that supposed to be in?

That's in the 8 page preview that was in the back of one of the Convergence titles last month. Can't remember which one, but it should be available as a free download from DC, Comixology and other places. In chronological terms it fits between issues #8 and #9.